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Poland in danger!
Author: AdamL Date: 25-08-2005, 08:49	It seems that it is possible to be out of 21 after this year. What do you think about it? Are Bulgarian teams strong enough to go throw qualifying round (battle with ex YU) and then go to UC group stage? What will happen in long term? Do you think that Poland may struggle with Austrians, Russians, Czechs and Swiss in UC qoulifying rounds?

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: heat1995 Date: 25-08-2005, 09:04	Polish teams get what they deserved. Only Wisla can do something. But even Wisla had very bad defeats (Valerenga & Dinamo). For me it isn't surprise. It's real life. It's a shame. I'm Polish - I don't see better future...

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: Rosa97 Date: 25-08-2005, 09:44	If we drop out of 21 I would say we surely deserve it. We can't advance to CL in years, we loose to unseeded teams in UCQ so we are destin to go to the 3 team situation.

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: sb Date: 25-08-2005, 10:15	you can think of it ..as returning to normal. i mean poland is not that strong in providing 4 good teams i think, season after season. but i dont think you're gonna fall below 21 at the end of this season.

Author: Nick
Date: 25-08-2005, 10:30

You will know about Bulgaria and Romania by tomorrow morning

I'm pretty sure CSKA will go to UEFA Cup GS if we don't draw CSKA Moscow or AS Roma. It depends very much on how Levski and Litex will perform. If one of those 2 teams manages to get to the GS Poland should be out of the Top 21. Loko Plovdiv will be 95% out in september if not even tonight.

Perfect UEFA Cup draw would be Wisla - CSKA with first match in Poland

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: sb Date: 25-08-2005, 10:38	you're pretty confident of levski&lplovdiv. i really dont think theyre gonna make it to GS. bulgaria will have probably 2 teams (unseeded) in UCR1..or three but its gonna b pretty hard for them to reach GS.. theyll have to be at their best.

Author: Nick
Date: 25-08-2005, 11:06
Edited by: Nick
at: 25-08-2005, 11:08

sb: Loko Plovdiv will NOT make it to the GS! That's what i said. They may eliminate OFK Belgrade but that's all for them this year. Maybe 1 point in R1 if they are lucky. I really don't know how Levski will perform and nobody knows that

They have good players but also have the habit of loosing against some joke teams like Publicum and may even leave Europe tonight. On the other hand it's perfectly possible that they reach the GS or even beyond that if they manage to beat Publicum!
I said that my hopes are for CSKA and Litex. CSKA showed impressive play on Anfield against Liverpool and is dominant in the domestic league. Just for the record: Only 1 CSKA player is not in any national team at the moment

Litex has a great coach (Lubko Petrovich) and very solid defenders so i really expect them to win some points this year.

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: sb Date: 25-08-2005, 11:36	ok. so i guess you r bulgarian. but as an outsider like me .. i'd put my faith in levski rather then litex. rijeka is a strong team.. anyway.. we will see tonight..or after10-12 hours.. i dunno exactly.

Author: anita
Date: 25-08-2005, 12:45

To be exact, Romania need 3.7 points MORE than Poland, and Bulgaria need 5.3 points MORE. Then Poland will fall down to 22nd place. Not many points if you reach UCGS, but is has to be done first, and I still assume that Wisla may go to UCGS as well.

Another angle here is that Norway and Serbia are just 0.5 points ahead of Poland. With no teams seeded in UCR1, and five teams in EC, I fear that Norway may have to look behind them on the ranking list this season.

Yet another thing is that there is not a disaster to have just three teams in EC for one season. When it comes to country coeffs, I would mean that five is worse.

Author: AdamL
Date: 25-08-2005, 14:05
Edited by: AdamL
at: 25-08-2005, 14:05

sb
Only twice in last 15 years Poland was below 21 place, so I just can’t treat it as returning to normal. In particular that it was only three years ago Polish teams beat FC Utrecht, AC Parma and Schalke 04. It was only two years ago when Polish teams beat NEC Nijmegen, Hertha and Man City. And at the end it was only one year ago we had hopes for two places in CL qualifications. What was happening? Are we that weaker now? Or are competitors that stronger?

anita
I agree that one season is not a disaster. But please note that competition in UCQR in Central Region is strong. What will happen if Polish teams have bad records this year? Our opponents will probably gain some points in UC and have better team rankings next year. Polish teams will have to play in qualification as unseeded. Will we have a chance to return over 21 ever?

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: Nick Date: 25-08-2005, 14:06	Anita is right as always btw, don't underestimate Litex. They have a bunch of great bulgarian and foreign players. Currently 5 or 6 national players. And they usually perform well in Europe.

Author: Kronsky
Date: 25-08-2005, 14:42

Oh dear! Its not easy to explain situation in polish futball!

We will soon have new topic where Poland is involved and it calls "The battle for 21 place". I recognize both Norway and Poland before Sweden. And THATS more important

I think Wisla have fair chance to go to GS and they can do well there. Groclin is god and SOLID (yes, yes, thats new word in polish futball) team but will not be seeded so its much about the draw. Legia will play tonight without 11 ordinary players and I dont think they will pas. The team is in bad period now so I dont count on them. Wisla Plock...I would be surprise if they proceed to R1.

Polish extraklasa is on the way up (as the country does) and time will come when they take 15th place, but they must deserve it first, not just hoping for luck. Polish place now is between 15th and 21 place so I dont see something strange. One year closer 15th (better luck) and one year closer 21st (less luck).

Off the topic:

And Norway should use more oil money to build up strong team for CL. Rosenborg is very good, but I would like to see them in at least semifinals. Or is it so that norwegian teams are just looking to be better than swedish.

Thun-Malmö: 3-0, Ouch! You should see headlines in all major newspappers! Ouch again! Its hard to be Malmö fan those days but I learn something about swedish: They show extreemly good abilities to forget and eraze, and when closing their eyes they still see Carl XII!

And regarding national team, its to much arrogance against other teams. I really HOPE that Bulgaria will squeeze them to the ground and win the WC qual. match in Sweden. Im sure that they will be very polite...for one week and then its time again...to foret, eraze and "no see". Or dreaming about those days when Nowrway and Finland belonged to Sweden thinking "How did it happend, why did we let Norwegian go?", "they should be very greatfull to us for letting them go", "are they gratefull enough?"

Anita, think about that! Be more gratefull!

Best regards
Kronsky

Author: anita
Date: 25-08-2005, 14:57

You have a point there, AdamL the Central Region is IMO considerably stronger than e.g.Northern European region, and Poland are fighting just those Central-East-countries for the ranking.

And next two EC-seasons Poland will lose their best years. In preliminary ranking for 2007-08 Poland is on 22nd place (behind Slovenia!) with lots of possibilities to fall further down the list. It is a shame, since I am old enough to remember (very well) the great national team(s) Poland had in the 70's.

I don't like the term "deserved" in football, but over some time there are normally a balance. Last year Wisla were "unlucky" not to be seeded, and then meeting Real Madrid, but there is no excuse for losing to Dinamo Tbilisi in UCR1.

But assuming that Wisla reaches UCGS this year, there may be more points to catch up there than in CLGS. I think the same goes for Rosenborg. But of course, CLGS is CLGS, and I presume AdamL and Kronsky a.o. gladly would have traded some coeff points to play in CLGS.

Author: Kronsky
Date: 25-08-2005, 17:04

Yes Anita!

I would gladely change some coeff. points insted for CL for Wisla THIS year

Wisla is not ready for CL but might be in 2 years time. The problem is of course money. If they manage to qualify this year they would receive money to build stronger team for next year. Also, infrastructure in Poland change so we will see polish teams on their way up. But it will change slowly...

Also...Poland will apply to be transfered to north region in next seson UC draw so we might see some surprise

In long term, I see Poland within 15 best countries even if I might not live so long so I can experience those "happy" days...

Best regards
Kronsky

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: Nick Date: 25-08-2005, 18:42 Edited by: Nick at: 25-08-2005, 19:06	They will apply to be transfered to north region? How is this possible? Can everybody just apply and be transfered to another region? He, he, he...Litex just finishes off the death sentence on croatian football this evening

Author: Kronsky
Date: 25-08-2005, 19:00

Its called "lobbying"

Yes, they will apply to get into north area. They made changes before (so Sweden could join weekest area). If You look at coeff then You understand that polish want to have more fair draw in UCQ2. This year we get FZ Zurich, Grasshopers and Banska Bystrica. Nice teams to meet in R1 but not in UCQ2.

Look then what oponents we have in north group then. Im not saing that teams in north group are so much weaker but...they have much lower coeff. In that way, if Poland get up to North it will be more balanced (average coeff.)

Best regards
Kornksy

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: Kronsky Date: 25-08-2005, 19:48	Ok, we have Wisla Krakow and Groclin in UCR1! Wisla Plock on the way to be third against Grasshopers Legia to go...

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: Nick Date: 25-08-2005, 20:03	Well, Plock is out.

Author: Kronsky
Date: 25-08-2005, 20:22
Edited by: Kronsky
at: 25-08-2005, 20:36

Not funny for Poland

Very funny for Switzerland

Plock was 3-1 up and then got red (stupid) card and of course Grasshop. Scored when seven minuts left of the match. Considering that they missed all chances in Switzerland inkluding penalty and that they played much better than Grasshop., I start to feel that polish teams are not specially lucky in their efforts

Positiv thing: Plock was much better and that means that the situation in polish extraklasa is not THAT bad...

Im just waiting for Legia's desaster! They are playing without 11 ordinary players!!!!!

So we will end with Wisla and Groclin and we dont need bad luck again with the draw.

Congratulation to Grashoppers and Switzerland!

Best regards
Kronsky

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: cattle_ripper Date: 25-08-2005, 21:59 Edited by: cattle_ripper at: 25-08-2005, 22:00	So Bulgaria retakes 21st place back from Romania. All 4 teams qualified. Poland continues with 2 and Romania with 3. My bet is - in the end it will be: 20. Poland (or Bulgaria) 21. Bulgaria (or Poland) 22. Romania

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: Zuberbuler Date: 25-08-2005, 22:23	Anybody have any idea when the coefficients will be update ?

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: cattle_ripper Date: 25-08-2005, 22:33	when all matches are over and when bert enters them in his database. let's hope this will happen within a few hours.

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: maranton Date: 26-08-2005, 00:14	Coefficients are updated.

Author: LevskiFan
Date: 26-08-2005, 02:10
Edited by: LevskiFan
at: 26-08-2005, 02:11

lol 4 teams inthe 1st round!!!!! Now thats some great news....

Lets hope we can get 1 or 2 teams in the GS....why not 3!!!! Cska has the best chance to reach them, as the have really good team right now....and after I saw Levski tonight, I think we might make it through too...IF of course we dont get a really good team for the 1st round.....about Litex, they have the quality and potential to qualify for the GS, but its up to the opponent they face....and as Nick said Loko Plovdiv are done, I don't think they have any chance to go to the GS....but u never know, miracles happen

Anyways....here are my predictions of what will be the ranking at the end of the season....

20 Poland
21 Bulgaria
22 Romania

I'm not gonna say anything more....but I think we might get the 20th place...but lets see the draw first.....

Author: sb
Date: 26-08-2005, 05:01

22nd place for romania is quite good actually out of two reasons. first: we're not prepared for a 4-team EC presence.. for example .. the second leg of the previous QL round .. were pretty awful for romanian teams: Steaua buc played embarassing for about an hour or so against the weakest team that weve met in the 3rd prel round since the beginning of the champions league; dinamo buc struggled with omonia..and still cant live up to the expectations of its management while rapid bucuresti is the only team to bring home a point, but from a poor team as vardar.
second: just one or two years ago romania was 26th and its champion shouldve played in the CLQ1 (it didnt happen cuz the CL title holder qualified for CL in its own championship.. or something like that..)

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: peter Date: 26-08-2005, 08:11	i agree with levskifun about ranking, but keep in mind that poland and romania got one team each seeded for UCGS, while bulgary and norway got none ( all unseeded)And norway got rosenborg which is more like old- boys team then a soccer team. From all this 3 -4 contries, i beleve that serbian teams (both seeded) got a secure place in top 21, all the rest of the countries will fight to the end.

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: heat1995 Date: 26-08-2005, 09:07	Good peter. Wisla & Steaua will be seeded today. And none from Bulgarian clubs...

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: Nick Date: 26-08-2005, 09:36	heat: Seeding is not everything Just ask Celtic, Partizan, Maccabi (both of them) and so on. TO be honest i WANT one of the following teams in this order to meet CSKA: Crvena Zvezda, Partizan, Steaua, Wisla. Only other teams on my wishlist are Grasshopers, Slavia Praha and maybe Palermo

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: peter Date: 26-08-2005, 10:03	nick , CSK Sofia its a very good team, but i dont think you realy want to meet Crvena Szvezda or Steaua Buc again. I hope none of my team will play serbians, they are realy good Do you know what time they 'll sow us posible seeded and unseeded groups? They supose to do it already, last year they did it with 12 hours before the draw.

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: Nick Date: 26-08-2005, 10:06	Watch uefa.com I guess they should announce the groups any minute now

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: sb Date: 26-08-2005, 10:07 Edited by: sb at: 26-08-2005, 10:09	yea.. if anyone has any idea about when r we gonna see the groups; it would be a precious information .. ) edit: ok they have shown the groups.

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: SHEV Date: 26-08-2005, 10:14	Even if Poland will lose 21-st spot this time - it will be just for one year - look at Israel performance and what coeff they are about to lose. And playing with 3 teams should give nice coefficient at the end.

Author: delyan
Date: 26-08-2005, 10:28

I have written a lot of things that doesn't matter now as UEFA has anounced the pre-draw...

1.The pot of Levski:

AJ Auxerre (FRA) PFC Levski Sofia (BUL)
PAOK FC (GRE) FC København (DEN)
SK Slavia Praha (CZE) FC Dinamo Bucuresti (ROU)
Hamburger SV (GER) FC Metalurh Donetsk (UKR)
Everton FC (ENG) Cork City FC (IRL)

2. The pot of CSKA:

Bayer 04 Leverkusen (GER) SC Braga (POR)
Olympique de Marseille (FRA) PFC CSKA Sofia (BUL)
PFC CSKA Moskva (RUS) KFC Germinal Beerschot Antwerpen (BEL)
FK Crvena Zvezda (SCG) FC Midtjylland (DEN)
Grasshopper-Club (SUI) Myllykosken Pallo-47 (FIN)

3. The pot of Litex:

AS Roma (ITA) Aris Thessaloniki FC (GRE)
Besiktas JK (TUR) PFC Litex Lovech (BUL)
FK Partizan (SCG) FC Baník Ostrava (CZE)
SC Heerenveen (NED) Maccabi Petach-Tikva FC (ISR)
KRC Genk (BEL) Malmö FF (SWE)

4. The pot of Loko (Pd):

Galatasaray SK (TUR) FC Zenit St. Petersburg (RUS)
AEK Athens FC (GRE) Debreceni VSC (HUN)
RC Lens (FRA) Groclin Grodzisk Wielkopolski (POL)
FC Shakhtar Donetsk (UKR) Tromsø IL (NOR)
Bolton Wanderers FC (ENG) PFC Lokomotiv Plovdiv (BUL)

Author: delyan
Date: 26-08-2005, 10:37

1. Levski - PAOK would be wonderful

)) Thessaloniki is 260 km from Sofia..Slavia (Praha) - not bad - Levski has eliminated them two seasons ago...Auxerre, Everton, Hamburger - not a good idea

))

2. CSKA - It's Grashoppers or elimination I'm afraid...not bad chances vs. Crvena Zvezda Beograd either but I'm a pessimist on this one...Else a nice option for Berbatov's comeback with Leverkusen

3. Litex has the best pre-draw - European Clubs' Champion coach Lupko Petrovich can get a draw against the arch-enemy Partizan

))The Benelux teams are strong - however with some luck and playing at their best Lovech can get 1-2 points or even go further...Besiktas didn't convince in the QR...

4. Loko (Pd) - their owner and president was shot dead after the game vs. OFK Beograd last night - and that will have the major impact on this club in the following months.Maybe they won't win even a point.

Re: Poland in danger!
Author: TheGame Date: 26-08-2005, 15:17	@Kronsky Thank you. Switzerland had two very poor years. Now we are striking back. Good luck to Poland in the future!