Forum

xml	No replies possible in the archive

Author: spartaan
Date: 03-08-2005, 13:32

This year in the dutch competition there will be a play-off system

For example

Result after 34 matches
1) psv
2) ajax
3) feyenoord
4) az
5) Heerenveen
6) Twente
7) Vitesse
8) Roda
9) rkc
10) Willem 2
11) Utrecht
12) Groningen
13) Nec

Then the play off will start.

First Round

2-5 Heerenveen -ajax (1-0) ajax - heerenveen (0-1)
3-4 az - feyenoord (0-1) feyenoord - az (1-0)
6-9 rkc- twente (1-0) twente - rkc (0-1)
7-8 roda- vitesse (0-1) vitesse - roda (1-0)
10-13 nec - willem 2 (1-0) willem 2 - nec (0-1)
11-12 groningen - utrecht (1-0) utrecht - groningen (0-1)

Second Round

Heerenveen - Feyenoord (0-1) Feyenoord - Heerenveen (1-0)
az - ajax (1-0) ajax - az (0-1)
rkc - vitesse (0-1) vitesse - rkc (1-0)
nec - groningen (1-0) groningen - nec (0-1)

Third round

Vitesse - ajax (1-0) ajax - vitesse (0-1)

Result after play-offs

psv - Champions League
feyenoord - 3rd Qualifying Round Champions League
heerenveen - Uefa-cup
az - Uefa-cup
vitesse - Uefa-cup
ajax - Intertoto
rkc - Intertoto
nec - Intertoto

What do you think of this play off system?

Re: Example situation for the dutch play-offs
Author: m4e Date: 03-08-2005, 13:49	Do you think ajax will accept playing intertoto instead of playing QR Champions league according to previous system? I doubt that.

Re: Example situation for the dutch play-offs
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 03-08-2005, 14:14	They have to, because the Dutch FA will make participation in the Intertoto compulsory for all teams.

Author: Gauss
Date: 03-08-2005, 14:45
Edited by: Gauss
at: 03-08-2005, 14:48

I don't really understand your example for the play-off rounds. If the result is 1-0 and 0-1 which team will advance?

If I understood the general concept right, teams 2 - 5 play for one CL-spot, two UC-spots and a match against the winner of teams 6 - 9 for the third UC-spot.
I think that's really strange. And where will the cup winner be? If the cup winner is among teams 2 - 5 it should get the chance to play for the second CL-spot. Would then all teams 2 - 5 have a guaranteed UC-spot?

Edit: And is there a UI-spot for teams 10 - 13?

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 03-08-2005, 14:56
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 03-08-2005, 15:00

I don't really understand your example for the play-off rounds. If the result is 1-0 and 0-1 which team will advance?
In his example one teams wins both legs with 1-0, so they advance. If both teams win one leg with 1-0 there will be extra time (just like in the European Cups).

If I understood the general concept right, teams 2 - 5 play for one CL-spot, two UC-spots and a match against the winner of teams 6 - 9 for the third UC-spot.
I think that's really strange. And where will the cup winner be? If the cup winner is among teams 2 - 5 it should get the chance to play for the second CL-spot. Would then all teams 2 - 5 have a guaranteed UC-spot?
Nobody knowns what will happen then. I send a number of emails to the Dutch FA about this situation, but didn't get an answer.
When this situation happens, then the 3rd round play-off would become useless, as both have already qualified for UEFA-cup.

Edit: And is there a UI-spot for teams 10 - 13?
Yes, there is an Intertoto spot for the winner of the play-off's for teams finishing 10-13.

Author: spoonman
Date: 03-08-2005, 15:25
Edited by: spoonman
at: 03-08-2005, 15:28

I'm flabbergasted. What a very, very, very strange system...

When will all these matches be played? World Cup will already be underway when all this is over.

And what about the revenues generated by these matches (gate receipts, TV rights)? Will the participating clubs keep all the money or will it be distributed between all league clubs? Otherwise the champion would be financially disadvantaged.

Once again: I think this is a very, very, (etc.) strange system and I hope it will never be adopted anywhere else.

Re: Example situation for the dutch play-offs
Author: spoonman Date: 03-08-2005, 15:27	By the way: What about relegation? Has the Dutch FA invented a similarly clever system for relegation playoffs?

Re: Example situation for the dutch play-offs
Author: m4e Date: 03-08-2005, 15:55	This system of play-offs is based on the assumption that holland has the 8th spot or higher. What if they become 9th or 10th and have 4 teams?

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 03-08-2005, 17:36
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 03-08-2005, 17:38

I'm flabbergasted. What a very, very, very strange system...

When will all these matches be played? World Cup will already be underway when all this is over.

The play-off's will be over on 14 May. Because of that the normal league is already finished on 16 April.

By the way: What about relegation? Has the Dutch FA invented a similarly clever system for relegation playoffs?
In fact they did also change the relegation play-off's. No groups any more but knock-out in a best of 3 system (in which the 3rd match will only be played if both teams won 1 match or both matches have been drawn). The number 16 and 17 together with 8 2nd level teams will compete for 2 spots in the eredivisie.

Re: Example situation for the dutch play-offs
Author: spoonman Date: 03-08-2005, 17:47	Well, if the normal league finishes on April 16 you must have a lot of midweek matchdays this season... Who invented this peculiar playoff system? The federation? Or the clubs themselves? Did they want to make the league more interesting or is it just about money?

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 03-08-2005, 19:44
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 03-08-2005, 19:45

Well, if the normal league finishes on April 16 you must have a lot of midweek matchdays this season...
Well, not that many midweek rounds (only 2), but the winterbreak is much shorter this season. It used to be from around 20 December till around 20 January. This season it's only from 30 December till 13 January.

Who invented this peculiar playoff system? The federation? Or the clubs themselves? Did they want to make the league more interesting or is it just about money?
The federation invented this together with the Eredivisie CV (the clubs). Indeed to make more money and (like they say) to make the league more interesting. However most players and coaches were not to happy with these plans. Also the government and the supporters aren't to happy.

Re: Example situation for the dutch play-offs
Author: spoonman Date: 03-08-2005, 19:52	Thx for the info, ForzaAZ But why does the government worry about this?

Author: kurt
Date: 03-08-2005, 20:24
Edited by: kurt
at: 03-08-2005, 20:26

it sucks, if they want play offs, keep it simple

if you want to increase matches , you have to decraese teams
so 16 teams instead of 18 teams, that will be 30 games instead of 34 games

after the normal competition you play playoffs 6 games

16 teams, is 4 times 4 teams

so group 1 : the best four teams play against each other in a poule, 6 games like champions league and they play for the 2 cl tickets and for 2 uefacuptickets

so group 2 : teams 5th until 8th play for the 5th uefacupticket and for 1 intertototicket

so group3 : teams 9-12 play for 2 intertototickets

so group 4 : teams 13-16 play playdowns, the last 2 go division lower

that is simple and clear and that is what the fans want

and you increase the games only from 34 to 36 games

note : at the start of the groupphases , you can give the first of the group 3 bonus points, the second 2 bonus points , the third 1 bonus points, the last 0 bonus points, this is a stimulation to get as highest as possible during the normal competition and a reward for the achievement

what do you think of this proposal ?

i hope belgium will have it in a couple of years, a lot of clubs in belgium wants this system

Re: Example situation for the dutch play-offs
Author: Nico Date: 03-08-2005, 22:22	And what about the champion? Season over April 16th? Which would mean they have to pay their players until May or June, with no income in these months? Looks like their wallet may prefer not being champion, but winning the CL play-offs and qualifiers...

Author: m4e
Date: 03-08-2005, 22:46

@ Kurt

Very good proposal, very clear and simpel and much better then the dutch one. I only dont understand wat you want to achieve with the extra bonus points. The system in Belgium says "the higher the ranking, the more TV-money a club get at the end of the year". If that is no stimulation??
People talk a lot of the play-offs in Belgium, but it will take a few years when it becomes reality. Lets say the dutch will be a test case for the belgians...

Re: Example situation for the dutch play-offs
Author: Laudrup1 Date: 04-08-2005, 14:22	I think he means that as a bonus for winning the league, you'd start the play-off group with a bonus of 3 points, 2nd in the league would then get 2 bonus points and so on...........

Re: Example situation for the dutch play-offs
Author: kurt Date: 04-08-2005, 14:49	YES LAUDRUP, that is wat i mean, the first in the regular competition get 3 bonuspoints in the playoffs, i find this the most fair way i hope, that belgium will have it very soon, much more spectacle , and this all the season, every place won has a bonus, now in beglium with only 4 european places, after 25 games if you end 6th or 12th, nobody cares