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Author: ralfinho
Date: 13-03-2005, 12:42

It was alredy mentioned in the Olympiakos-Newcastle-topic, but I think it's worth a single topic.

"Anders Frisk has retired from refereeing after receiving threats against himself and his family." (more)

I am very sad about the decision of Anders Frisk though I fully understand it. He is still one of the best referees on earth.
(Some people don't like him because of his gold bracelets but that's another issue.)

I am very upset about so called supporters that threaten someones life.
I am very upset, too, about English media that are not innocent for Frisk's decision.
Furthermore, - though some people here will not want to hear this - I am very upset about Mourinho whos allegations were the trigger for the entire issue.

Re: Anders Frisk has retired
Author: ATHAKE Date: 13-03-2005, 13:49 Edited by: ATHAKE at: 13-03-2005, 13:51	I am not upset, ı dont like him. He pretends as a spanish fan in home matches. Gala fans do not forget the 2.quarter final CL match in Madrid, Real Madrid-Galatasaray Some advantages to home team is ok, but if spanish club, Frisk exaggerate so much...

Re: Anders Frisk has retired
Author: anita Date: 13-03-2005, 14:27	ATHAKE, you don't get the point, do you? According to Frisk, it was the threats from so-called Chelsea supporters that was the drop. And it is a shame that managers/coaches/supporters/players have a tendency to blame the referee (or the weather or turf or the opponent or Gods hand or..) for their own lousy playing and/or behaviour. But it make life easier for themselves, ehh?

Author: Osirius
Date: 13-03-2005, 14:32

This topic is about Frisk and as IIII can seeee about Mourinho.Somebody like him, somebody hate him.As for me I can say that from my opinion he killed the hopes of CSKA in Champion League,Chelsea could have not to lost the last game against Porto which could give the way for CSKA,but it was already up to him to decide this.He is one of the best trainers in the world and he proves and proves it.I just admire him.And for those whose teames lost against Mourinho,don't waste your time on crying,just find the better one.

Author: ralfinho
Date: 13-03-2005, 15:47
Edited by: ralfinho
at: 13-03-2005, 17:04

Athake,
it's up to you if you don't like Frisk. Tastes are different and that's okay.
It's also up to you to think that Frisk is a bad referee. Opinions are free.
But it should be indisputable that NOTHING ON EARTH, not even wrong referee decisions, gives anybody the right to threaten someones life and the life of his family. (Do you have children?)

Coming to the English (yellow) press, I think them to be partly guilty of the threats of the idiots. In the case of Urs Meier, the Sun published his postal address and email address. Not surprising, what happened later. Irresponsible and scandalous.

Coming to Mourinho, I did NOT say that he's guilty of the threats. But, as I said, his allegations were the trigger. Maybe he thinks about it. Imagine if one of the idiots had made his threat come true. Don't know if Mourinho could sleep well anymore in this case.

Osirius,
his coaching skills are out of question. That was not my point.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 13-03-2005, 21:24

It seems that English press is often putting more oil on the fire. Mourinho is also someone who like to heat up the fire. I hope (for him) that it doesn't backfire on him.
By the way, also Spanish press is not always correct. They claim that Cruyff has said something on Dutch television he didn't(Puyol being too old). Press is very powerfull, they can make a pubic opinion and I'm afraid they sometimes don't realize this, or do they and want to change something in the world??
Well I wrote it before, mentality of current days is without respect. How can you threaten somebody who is doing the best he can. Being a referee is being always the one to blame, as always 1 team loses. Terrible job. But necessary-no referee-> no match.

Author: anita
Date: 13-03-2005, 21:43

Osirius, you didn't catch the point, either? Gee, are you and ATHAKE from the same town or same culture, or are you downright siamese twins? To me it is impossible NOT to comprehend what ralfhinho is talking about.

I choose the obvious solution in the mystery of the murder in the locked room. If it can't have been commited from the outside, it must be from the inside. Osirius and ATHAKE is the same person. Two persons canhardly be so 'compatible' on such a level at the same time.

Re: Anders Frisk has retired
Author: Osirius Date: 13-03-2005, 21:56	Anita I really like you but plz. one more time about ATHAKE and me.I didn't catch the point.

Author: SHEV
Date: 13-03-2005, 22:42

It's very hard for Osirus to understand you. In Russia they do not threat referees - they beat them!!! Even in hotel rooms after matches! It was few times. And noone retired after that. So I think Frisk showed some cowardness like in match Roma-Dynamo when he stopped match because he was hit with a coin. But he was one of the best anyway. I think it's a very pity that best referees should retire because of some freaks.

Author: anita
Date: 14-03-2005, 00:25

Osirius (and ATHAKE)!

Ralfinho is putting up the topic because he thinks it is a shame that some (or a lot of) hooligan idiots threaten a referee and his family in a way that you actually fear for your familys life.

Whatever Anders Frisk a good or a lousy referee, well,that is a TOTALLY different topic. And I find it offensive that both of you (deliberately?) misunderstand. Socrates once said that you have no moral/ethic right to be angry with people that are dumber than yourself. I would like to follow his advice, but guess I chose to make an exception here...

Author: ATHAKE
Date: 14-03-2005, 02:03

Ofcourse threads to him and his family is unacceptable.

I guess Moscow mafia is in it, Abraham is a dark person, There is one like him in turkey, ı know how dark men dominate matches.
Giving money,if not,threading is the most used way by them.

But ı dont think my first post's offtopic. ıts the reason of threads.
if UEFA punish him by those mathes, there ll be no threads.

but whatever he does, threading him and his family is not true.
İf UEFA punish referees,coaches and clubs at right time, there ll be more fair game...

Author: ATHAKE
Date: 14-03-2005, 02:38
Edited by: ATHAKE
at: 14-03-2005, 02:52

""Osirius, you didn't catch the point, either? Gee, are you and ATHAKE from the same town or same culture, or are you downright siamese twins? To me it is impossible NOT to comprehend what ralfhinho is talking about.

I choose the obvious solution in the mystery of the murder in the locked room. If it can't have been commited from the outside, it must be from the inside. Osirius and ATHAKE is the same person. Two persons canhardly be so 'compatible' on such a level at the same time.""

Ohhh ı missed this post,
"catch the point","catch the point",
Anita,what a uncatchable issue is this, this is not about quantum physic,is it?
Do u think u r more clever or do u think we r less clever, do not talk silly.

Osirius and me is the same person,is What u said!
Then prove it,if u dont have datas to prove it, SHUT UP...

who do u think yourself? How dare u? who the hell r u?
U r talking so much but say noting...

Author: anita
Date: 14-03-2005, 03:24

Quod errat demonstrandum. No, ATHAKE, it is not about quantum physics. It is not about Anders Frisk. It is not about Andres Escobar. It is not about the Russian mafia or Abramovich (well, what do I know?)

It is about a man and his family being threatened for their life because some lunatics value their favorite football team more than their (and others) life. And it is about the responsibility of the media and the responsibility of the persons appearing in the media.

Contrary to what Ricardo is arguing, I think the lunatics have always been there. But nowadays they can use more anonymous scenes. That's why it seems they are so legio.

And it is about Anders Frisk. It is about Andres Escobar. And in the end, I presume everything ends up in quantum physics. What the hell are those idiots doing on this planet? What kind of outer space dimension or parallell world or black hole do they come from?

Author: ATHAKE
Date: 14-03-2005, 10:07
Edited by: ATHAKE
at: 14-03-2005, 10:08

Blah Blah Blah. Anita,do not engage in demagoguery. Conium maculatum
proves who is the right.

""Ofcourse threads to him and his family is unacceptable.

I guess Moscow mafia is in it, Abraham is a dark person, There is one like him in turkey, ı know how dark men dominate matches.
Giving money,if not,threading is the most used way by them""

Do u have reading ability,do u know anything about semantics?
No i think...

Author: ignjat63
Date: 14-03-2005, 11:57

It is pretty obvious that people are getting more aggressive by the decade. Remembering the 70s, they now seem like kindergarden. I fear someone is really gonna get killed one of these days (on the pitch, I mean).

To get more sociological - I can't help remembering one of Nietzche's sentences - about people being equally religious as always but rejecting religion itself. The result is they identify with other things - nations, ideologies, fotball teams and what not. (The Balcan happenings in the 90s are, I believe, a strong case in my favor). So the more aggressive of them are becoming really dangerous.

Frisk did right to stop being referee. I do not think him a coward. But sooner or later some other referee is gonna get hurt by being brave.

As for the English yellow press I don't think they have any scruples at all. If their writing led to Frisk being hurt they would not lose a minute of their beauty sleep.

Author: maciosgh
Date: 14-03-2005, 12:28

To ATHAKE and Anita...Like kids

))))

Getting back to the main topic, in my opinion Frisk was (frankly speaking is) a referee that has seen things his way in spite of thousands behind their tellys and on the stadium. He is a referee and football referees are ALLOWED to make mistakes. And it's probavly very hard to make refereeing decisions because there are no neutral ones. But that doesn't mean that anyone may threaten him!! Let's wait for the cameras and computers to come into the game and you'll all be begging for referees that do make mistakes and a game that will once again be a game of emotions!

Referees are a part of the game that we all like so much - it's like threatning the player that didn't score (or scored...Escobar).

Pierolic lunatics!! (don't want to use the f.. word :grin

Author: apw
Date: 14-03-2005, 14:10

I see today that Volker Roth , is now on the same publicity seeking path that he accuses Jose Mourinho of being.
Whilst like all decent football fans i deplore the threats to Anders Frisk,but i believe this idiotic ranting of Herr Roth is bringing Uefa into disrepute, although nothing will be done as they regard themselves as above the law, it also throws more fuel to the flames of this argument when uefa should be acting to calm things down. Is JM really an enemy of football ? Whatever happened to the european ethic of free speech.
With regard to Mr Frisk , he is now suffering from being in the limelight which he strove desperatly to figure in every time he stepped on the pitch. Mr Collina & Mr Merk both top referees have always been so good as they seek anomity whilst in the centre.

Author: Todor
Date: 14-03-2005, 16:16

@apw

There is no such thing as freedom of speech on the football pitch. The referees takes split-second decisions , which are irreversible. It's not managers' and players' business to discuss the officials and throw unproven accusations, as I still haven't heard a referee to give a comment on the players.
Every team have the right to appeal against a referee after a match , but it's entirely up to UEFA to take action if necessary , as each team is a concerned side.

Re: Anders Frisk has retired
Author: ralfinho Date: 14-03-2005, 19:55	apw, Volker Roth did not allege Mourinho of being publicity seeking, but of being the trigger for the escalation of the issue. So did I yesterday. Same did Kim Milton Nielsen today: "In his position he must have more sense of responsability. He must not make allegations that are munition for the hooligans." (Aftonbladet) Fully understandable, I think.

Author: apw
Date: 15-03-2005, 01:45

ralfinho
I take your point.However Mourinho is not the first manager to criticise a referee publicly , Both Ferguson & Wenger to name but two have occasionly passed comment , as i said i am appalled re the alledged threats to Mr Frisk and i am glad to see Chelsea fc make a statement condeming the so called people ? who are alledged to have made them. However i think this was just the final act for Mr Frisk following the Roma v Kiev game this season & i,m led to believe there has been other contraversial incidents before.
The point i was making is that for a faceless uefa bigwig ? such as Mr Roth of whom i had never heard of before today to call a top coach " an enemy of football " is irresponsible and insulting and uefa should make him retract his words or even apoligise in much the same way it is being suggested that JM should do

Author: ralfinho
Date: 15-03-2005, 02:45

apw,
I accept your second point. "Enemy of football" is insulting.
But on the other hand, I can unterstand Roth (btw: has been one of the best referees ever we had in Germany and thus became chairman of the referee board of German FA and of UEFA). If you were referee and you see the life of a colleague threatened and you see the triggers for that, maybe you also would use words that are exaggerated.
Anyway, I would appreciate Roth to apologize.

Coming to Mourinho,
it's a difference between to criticise a referee (what is usual) and to allege him to be influenced by the opponent's coach. The latter is what Mourinho did. Additionally he made a big ballyhoo about it in Barcelona by ignoring the press conference and others.

Since Saturday morning I wait for an apologize or at least for a statement like "Sorry, I did not intention the threats on Frisk". Never heard something like that. In contrary, he has nothing better to do than to bleat at Cruyff for a quite harmless criticism.

I tell you, this guy sells his own grandmother for his success.

P.S.
I appreciate very much the statement of Chelsea FC you mentioned. First that I hear about it.

Re: Anders Frisk has retired
Author: Todor Date: 15-03-2005, 11:27	I've no idea why people blame Frisk for Roma v Dynamo game. He showed a Roma player a red card (pretty reasonable decision ) and then he was hit by an object in the head , causing him to bleed . What was he supposed to do ? To have his head bandaged and to go on with the match as nothing happened ?

Re: Anders Frisk has retired
Author: anita Date: 15-03-2005, 15:13 Edited by: anita at: 15-03-2005, 15:18	Ne regrette rien. Mourinho is obviously not 'repenting' anything. It must be emphasized (again) that there is a quite subtle difference between blaming the referee for wrong decisions (bad day at work), and blaming (hinting) the referee for corruption and/or dishonesty/integrity (Frisk-Barca-Rijkaard). World soccer on Mourinho and Roth

Author: ralfinho
Date: 15-03-2005, 15:41

My comments to the Mourinho statements in the article posted by anita:

Mourinho: "It's a shame that Frisk has decided to leave football."
Bravo! The first words in the right direction.

Mourinho: "There's similar criticism every day, all around the world, for managers, directors and players. It's a normal situation."
Rubbish! As anita just said.

Mourinho: "A referee with the experience of Mr Frisk would not take such a drastic decision because of criticism of his performance at Barcelona."
Of course not. Why should he?

Mourinho: "If there are other motives I do not know them and would like them to be known. If it has something to do with the threats - which should obviously be condemned - then it is a police case."
I see. Nothing to a possible connection between his behaviour and the threats.

This guy is absolutely unable to admit that something he did (or said) was only a little bit wrong.

Re: Anders Frisk has retired
Author: porto-1978 Date: 15-03-2005, 18:54	I wonder why Urs Meier is not retired now, after english fans phone calls in the sequence of Euro04 QF between Portugal and England. And remember that Mourinho made no phone call to Frisk to fright him... If he retires now we can only think that he may had been with Rijkaard on the break. Why not an investigation? He prefers to leave football? Strange...

Author: porto-1978
Date: 15-03-2005, 23:33

Osirius, CSKA lost qualification to Porto, not to Mourinho. FC Porto won to Chelsea 2-1 after winning in Russia and drawing home with CSKA so why you complaint about? Mourinho and Chelsea tried to win that game i can assure you. He?s a coach that never let the other team to win even if his team is already qualified. Porto won that game fairly and was eleminated by FC Porto. Why aren?t you happy for his victory in Paris helping CSKA to be third in the group?

Re: Anders Frisk has retired
Author: ralfinho Date: 16-03-2005, 00:31	Urs Meier DID retire after the Euro because he reached the age limit. But, porto, I fully understand that you have a bad humour today. Tomorrow is another day.

Author: Osirius
Date: 16-03-2005, 06:00
Edited by: Osirius
at: 16-03-2005, 06:06

Porto
I'm not blaiming somebody or complaining.CSKA lost Porto in Moscow and I have nothing to add to this only that there was a very nice goal by McCarthy.But I still think that there were some reasons for Mouringho and Abramovitch to make Porto go further,and exactly they were the ones to decide how it will be, not Porto.
1.May be it was to show everybody that he has nothing to do with CSKA(I mean Abramovitch) ,you know thre were many talks about him Chelsea and CSKA(on this forum as well) and even in Russia many people beleived that Abramovitch will do something to help CSKA.
2.May be he is a dreamer and beleives to win CL with Chelsea and UC with CSKA.
Anyway I think that CSKA had the same chances as Porto with Inter,and now I'm even happy that we are still in UC.
If it is not so,than I still beleive that Chelsea leading 1-0 against Porto could hold at least the draw.
P.S. certainly I may be wrong.

And I think that CSKA had the same chances as Porto against Inter,I'm now very happy that we are still in UC.
Good luck Porto in Portugal,they have many efforts to make to catch now Benfica.

Re: Anders Frisk has retired
Author: Osirius Date: 12-04-2005, 05:38	So so My words step by step closer to reality. Chelsea and CSKA are with one foot in semis.So may be I'm not far away from reality.Chelsea takes CL Cup and CSKA UC Cup.Abavovitch forever

Re: Anders Frisk has retired
Author: joaol Date: 12-04-2005, 13:00	No more comments now???? When the truth is near and you start seeing mourinho is correct you don?t support him...assholes!!! Be realistic!!!What was the point of saying lies as the ones you thought he had said???you have to know Mourinho to like him ...a great Man above of all...very proud indeed...but very intellegent and not a lyer(or lier)

Author: apw
Date: 12-04-2005, 13:13

Jaoao , True people will believe what they want to believe, i just cannot why uefa are trying to persucute Mourinho & Chelsea, As he (mourinho) said on tv last saturday the truth will eventually come out.
But i am convinced that when it does uefa will choose to ignore it.
As i have said before i do not blame Mr Frisk , he has now said what happened in the tunnel at the nou camp , ok so Mourinho was slightly wrong in where the discussion took place , but it seems that it DID TAKE PLACE, so why have uefa not rescinded Mourinho's ban and charged Rijkaard ??????????
One other point is why are uefa making a fuss over Mourinho not attending last night's press conference ? They want him silent on Champions league occasions , so surely he was giving them their wish.

Re: Anders Frisk has retired
Author: cis Date: 13-04-2005, 09:31 Edited by: cis at: 13-04-2005, 09:32	mourinho is just doing things to be spotted, to be talked about. He thinks about fame and glory for himself. He sent 4th coach and Forsell on a press conference on purpose. He doesn't respect anybody so nobody should respect him. Guys like mourinho and Beckham kill football. That's for sure