Forum

xml	No replies possible in the archive

Cup & League-Cup
Author: Lunaris Date: 10-03-2005, 22:53	Just cause of interest: in england or france of course, not in scotland and whereever else they play league-cup) when a team wins both the cup and the league-cup, thus winning a place in uefa-cup, who gets the other spot then? is it the finalist of cup, or the one of the league-cup or is the other place just given to next league entry? has there already been such a situation?

Author: anita
Date: 10-03-2005, 23:51

If the cup winner is already qualified for UEFA-cup through the league, the next in league get the spot. If the cup winner is qualified for CL(Q), the losing cup finalist will take the cup spot. The losing league cup finalist will never take the spot, neither in France nor in England.

Happened with Liverpool in 2001, they won both cups (+ UEFA-cup). All the small trophies, as I told a friend who is Pool-supporter.

Re: Cup & League-Cup
Author: ralfinho Date: 11-03-2005, 01:13	Yes, and if the cup/league cup winner is NOT yet qualified for UC, it takes the CW spot. The league cup spot goes to the next in the league.

Re: Cup & League-Cup
Author: Lunaris Date: 11-03-2005, 10:58	thx for the info as in austria there is no league-cup, id on't really know the difference of both cups, maybe you could explain it to me would be a big help

Author: duncshine
Date: 11-03-2005, 11:34

This whole question touches on something we discussed this time last year. That is the order of qualifications. If a team qualifies for Europe in more than one way, they go into the competition in the following order.

1. Champions League Title Holder
2. Champions League through League Position
3. UEFA Cup Title Holder
4. UEFA Cup As Domestic Cup Winner
5. UEFA Cup Through League Position
6. UEFA Cup as League Cup Winner (France and England only)
7. UEFA Cup as Domestic Cup (not League Cup) runner-up
8. UEFA Cup through extra league spots
8. UEFA Cup through Fair Play
9. UEFA Cup through Intertoto

So, if the League Cup winner also qualifies for Europe through League Position or by winning the Domestic Cup as well. Then the next best team in the league qualifies.

If the Domestic Cup winner also qualifies for the Champions League, then the Cup Runner Up qualifies for the UEFA Cup.

However, if the Domestic Cup Winner also qualifies for the UEFA Cup by League Position, then they go through as Cup Winners, and so the runners-up cannot take their place.

If Domestic Cup Winner qualifies for Champions League, and Runner-up qualifies for either European competition, then the next team down the league gets the UEFA spot.

Whew!!

Author: duncshine
Date: 11-03-2005, 11:42

So, in England

Chelsea have already won the League Cup, but will certainly qualify for Champions League (they need one win in nine games)... so the next team in the League will qualify

So as it stands

Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal and Everton in Champs League
Liverpool in UEFA Cup for finishing 5th
Bolton in UEFA Cup in 6th, instead of league cup winners.

The FA Cup winners will take the final place to be decided, unless:

1) Arsenal play Manchester United in the final, in which case Middlesbrough (7th) would go through.

2) Arsenal or Manchester United beat any other team in the final, in which case the runners-up go through to UEFA.

3) Newcastle win the FA Cup and the UEFA Cup, in which case the FA Cup runners up go through.

The only other permutation, discussed in another thread, is if Liverpool win the Champions League and force Everton out of CL into UC.

Like I said, whew!

Author: Ricardo
Date: 11-03-2005, 12:34

Dunc,
are you sure about 3?
When Newcastle wins the UefaCup, and wins the FA-Cup, I would think cuploser won't get the cuploser spot. I would expect that next in league would get a spot.

By the way, what will happen if Newcastle will win the UefaCup and will not qualify for UefaCup in any other way(FA-Cup or league)? Will Newcastle take the place of anothe English team, or will it be an extra spot?

Re: Cup & League-Cup
Author: Lunaris Date: 11-03-2005, 14:59	Ok i understand that league-cup doesn't mean that much but how is it composed, how many teams may play in the league-cup compared to cup? actually i don't know why they need two cups

Re: Cup & League-Cup
Author: Frankiebhoy Date: 11-03-2005, 15:05	There is much debate in Scotland and England as to whether the 2nd Cup is required! It has almost the same format as the FA Cup with no replays and a 2 legged semi final (In England only)

Re: Cup & League-Cup
Author: mjwillan Date: 11-03-2005, 15:08	In England the League Cup is for league clubs - i.e. those in the top 4 levels: Premiership, Championship, League One and League Two - that is 92 clubs. The FA Cup is for all 92 + many non-league clubs - the total entry is over 400 clubs. However, the last time a team from outside the top 2 divisions reached either cup final was in the 1960s

Author: mapfumo
Date: 12-03-2005, 13:10

There is a extra spot available in the UEFA Cup for the previous winner. The extra spot is only filled when the UEFA Cup winner didn't qualify for the UEFA Cup or Champions League.
So if Newcastle Utd wins the FA Cup and UEFA Cup, then they are qualifed as domnestic cup winner.
If Newcastle wins the UEFA Cup and they didn't qualify for European footbal by the domnestic league or cup, there will an extra spot created for Newcastle Utd.