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Author: helvete
Date: 24-02-2005, 23:10

Whats up with UEFA in this situations. The home supporters embarresed themselves like they did in the Roma-Kiev game. They threw lighters and coins at the sportingplayers alot of times. The game was interupted but then the refree decided to continue the game. How is that possible. In my opinion Sporting should have been rewarded the victory 3-0 like Kiev was. But then again UEFA is not known for its consistency.

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: ralfinho Date: 25-02-2005, 00:08	First, it's up to the referee to decide. In Rome, Anders Frisk decided to suspend the match completely. I think he had good reasons for that. In Rotterdam, Florian Meyer decided to continue the match. I don't know the reasons, maybe the spectators calmed down. Anyway, Feyenoord will expect a severe punishment.

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: helvete Date: 25-02-2005, 00:19 Edited by: helvete at: 25-02-2005, 00:27	Ok thanx i thought it was up to matchofficials in the stands or something. Anyway the supporters were still throwing things at the end. When Viana was taking a corner for instance. Anyway the by far best team won.

Author: porto-1978
Date: 26-02-2005, 22:42

Feyenoord= nule chances. Sporting much better each minute of both legs.
Feyenoord hololigans suck, really suck. Who watched the game could see who have no fair play! Stop blaming on portuguese football fair play! we dont?throw lighters and objects on other team players. Portuguese football is quite fair, you only know one thing to say, the divings or whatever, that?s a tape people ate and repeat all the time. While their nordic suposed fair teams play rugby all the time and then say the others don?t have fair play.
Don?t make me laugh, celtic feyenoord and many other fans. If your players don?t have class to stop portuguese players without violence don?t blame on the artists.
In this game that guy Hofs or something like that scored the consolation goal after being extremely violent against Viana. In first game in Lisbon also Feyenoord should finish with less than 11 players. In fact Sporting finished with 10 and withou the coach for no reason. I?m sick of knowing who play fair and who don?t. Learn the rules and play football. Many of you will have to play rugby, just are in the wrong profession.
I hope Feyenoord out of european competitions for at least one season. And Gullit is not a coach, he was a player.

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: Joost Date: 27-02-2005, 15:22	I've never seen someone needing medical assistance for minutes resulting from a firecracker 5 meters away from him. Not trying to talk it straight but don't like all the theaterplay also. And who does celebrate a goal off the pitch right in front of the home supporters? Feijenoord is just very bad lately and supporters are getting sick of it.

Author: porto-1978
Date: 27-02-2005, 16:40

Hi Joost. You say the explosion was 5 meters away from Ricardo. I really don?t know if it was so far but i?m almost sure that Sporting goal keeper was the target. And that is very bad behaviour for any fans. On the pitch i deslike also the theatre many players do (from Keane to Inzaggi - it?s not a "latin" atitude for sure). But what i deslike more is the violent play (from Petit to Stam - it?s not a "nordic" atitude also). In football there are cards to be shown and the FIST reason to show them is the violent behaviour. As many theatre was done the rules aplyed the cards also to be shown on that cases, agreed. But i can understand a player that acts like he was dying after a hard move by his oponent that may see the card. In many games referees don?t show the cards for long and long time when they are absolutly deserved from a long time... then it?s completly natural what you call by theatre. There?s only one person to blame in that situations: the passive referee. Look at Seville final, the rude Galas (or another french and also a belgian i don?t remember the names) deserved so much to see red card and the referee was absolutly plying fool and blind. Was he proctecting the show?! It?s not his function. The players may play fair and protect themselves the show. Still i don?t like divings and cheatings and sometimes there?s no reason for them so the players should be punished. I get very angry with some portuguese players when they fall at first touch and i agree many times that referee acts correct signing nothing. I think sometimes if the player try to keep playing the referee will understand more easly that he couldn?t keep the move because of a small touch. When the player dives the small touch is never enough to cause the penalty or whatever. That?s bad carachter from some players, but plying hard should be punished always. The real lack of fair play is to play harder than the laws permit.
Finally i wonder why Sporting players can?t celebrate the goal in every part of the stadium? They were celebrating on the pitch, there?s nothing wrong about it. Is that a reason to throw objects to them?!? No way! Lack of fair play is lack of fair play, no excuses. Then the game was stoped and the public calm down, many thought the stop would freeze Sporting players but they came playing better again. Can someone confirm that in the forced break Gullit was watching the old photo?s on the walls of de Kuip dressing zone? It seemed to me that was him. Well he could at least try to take advantage of the break to motivate the players or was him expecting the game to be canceled?

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: helvete Date: 27-02-2005, 18:19	Joost Why are the dutch such bad loosers then?? You are talking about celebrating the goel off pitch. That didnt happen and even if it did it was a good thing to tease the home crowd after what they had been doing along the entire game. I hope Feyenoord gets really heavy fines and that they get banned from playing in front of supporters for some games.

Author: maciosgh
Date: 27-02-2005, 18:23

You southeners

Of course - Sporting players are allowed to demonstrate their joy everywhere but, seeing what was going on, was it necessary??

I believe such feelings like anger and rage are needed on the stands but up to a point. That's why I didn't like what Borowski did at the Valencia - Werder game even tough Valencia supporters really really sucked.

Congrats to Sporting and BTW I can't stand Feyenoord

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: helvete Date: 27-02-2005, 21:52	You cant compare the situation done by Borowski with the Sporting players celebration in Rotterdam. No way.

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: maciosgh Date: 28-02-2005, 13:02	I didn't compare the two situations!! I only believe that the Sporting players were aware that going to the home fans stands would enrage them a little bit. Or didn't they??

Author: porto-1978
Date: 28-02-2005, 18:21

No! Sporting came from Portugal hoster of last EURO where only some foreign hooligans made problems. In Portugal we don?t throw things to other team players, they can celebrate however they want. Sporting players just realised that when they felt object on their skins. The TV images are so evident. There was no provocation, just celebration ON THE PITCH. On the other side frustration for being in a 1-3 position with half an hour to play. That frustration and bad loosing made the incident, just that. UEFA MUST act in this situation. Lack of fair play must be punished.
One more thing; Sporting was really superb on both hands. 3 goals to nule in both legs would be fair too. I?m not suporter but i must confess they are in form. I hope they keep it that way at least in UEFA Cup. (In portuguese league they may win also to have confidence, i don?t mind they winning as i believe in my team FCPorto to win more games than they do including the game against them. It?s bad to wait for rival defeats; i just wait for my team victories).

Author: idemaa
Date: 28-02-2005, 20:27
Edited by: idemaa
at: 28-02-2005, 20:28

Hey porto,

relax a little bit, Sporting was way better than feyenoord in both legs (im a feyenoord supporter). So congrats to portuguese football they're doing very well lately.

But lets get some things straight. Diving is part of the game as is making rough tackles. I was very much annoyed by liedson in the first game. It was as though he couldnt walk upright for more than a few steps. The same goes for rough tackles, elbows, etc. But the referree is to decide in this. But as much as one can get a suspension for a really bad tackle maybe we should give penaltys for really obvious dives as well?

Than the part of fairplay. I think this term should be reserved for things happening on the pitch not of the pitch.

I am wondering what people's experiences around europe are. I've heard fireworks (bangs) on many european matches, as well as I have seen many things being thrown (at corners for example). So something like this was just bound to happen. THIS DOESNT MAKE IT RIGHT THOUGH, and we will probably get either a season ban or a season without home audience.

And then Ricardo I'm thankfull he didnt refuse to play on because if he'd had said he didnt want to play anymore I think the refferee would have stopped the game.... But he did act like a baby after having an explosion (at least) 5 metres away form him

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 01-03-2005, 00:52

Porto-1978 wrote: Stop blaming on portuguese football fair play! we dont?throw lighters and objects on other team players.

You're perfectly right Porto. Stop blaming the Portuguese for not being fair play !
Everybody who watched the France-Portugal game in the Euro 2000 remembers how the Portuguese players accepted with fair-play and dignity the decision of the referee to give a penalty for France.
Not to speak about Portuguese media that had the chance to see the pictures hundred times before writing papers and have acknowledged referee's decision for taking such a difficult decision.
Not to speak about the grace of a player such as Deco, etc ...

Should we keep on ?

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: ralfinho Date: 01-03-2005, 03:08	Question to the Dutch contributors: Am I right when I guess that this couldn't have happened in Amsterdam and Eindhoven, not to speak of Alkmaar, Heerenveen etc.? Means that I assume that issues like this always concern Feyenoord. And how does the KNVB handle the issue?

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: Ricardo Date: 01-03-2005, 08:23	It also could have happened in Amsterdam I think. 'Most known' for their violent behaviour in Holland, Rotterdam, Amsterdam and The Hague. Eindhoven is more a regional-club. To add to this Heerenveen is known as the team with the best supporters. No violence at all (maybe now they are getting a bit bigger club they also get a bot of the violence)

Author: Joost
Date: 01-03-2005, 10:25

Well actually I don't think it would have happened in Amsterdam. I won't say they're better behaving there but I've never seen them throw anything to opposite players in recent years. Even not when Feijenoord comes. (Ok I've to admit in late 80s there was a stick thrown at a goalkeeper from Austria).
But the lighters thrown at Ajax players you see every year with corners in De Kuip you won't see in Amsterdam.

(What I find even more appalling was the Feijnoord supporters running after dads with kids and hitting them at AZ in Alkmaar this year. Just because they lost 4-1, no provocation and we're just a small club)

Author: Joost
Date: 01-03-2005, 10:33

Feijnoord are a no-nonsense club. Hard working. People in the stands don't like arrogance or try to screw your opponent through falling for nothing all the time.
Well, the day after the Sporting game 'everybody' was talking about the Sporting players lying more on the pitch than were standing. So, that aroused the anger in Rotterdam I think.
It's wrong what they did and Feijenoord will be punished. But the truly "fair play" diving all the time was a reason this mad "supporters" did this.

I hope Mourinho won't ever come to Rotterdam because he would be burried under some 20.000 lighters with his attitude

j/k

Author: idemaa
Date: 01-03-2005, 13:20

Yes I think right now Feyenoord is the most likely club for this to happen, even though its definately not unimaginable for it to happen at Ajax or for example Utrecht.
The thing is its just a few mad/sad people doing this whom probably arouse some others too....or even one good throw is enough
I'd say ban them for life from the stadium or from any stadium for that matter.
I actually don't think the KNVB will take action on this incident other than to warn Feyenoord this shouldnt happen in the competition and maybe even predicting the consequences to them, otherwise it is a case in the hands of UEFA

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: maciosgh Date: 01-03-2005, 15:06	To Joost: And what about Haag (I hope I spell it correctly)? Were PSV players abused (verbally) there? I asked the question because the team I hate most of all (Legia Warsaw) are proud of their friedship with ADO's supporters...Do situations like mentioned above often happen there?

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: Ricardo Date: 01-03-2005, 18:10	ADO Den Haag didn't play in the highest league for some years, but returned recently. They have the name to be violent. What happened with PSV (and also with Ajax 2 weeks before that) was just shouting insults. That were bad insults, very bad, but no throwing. And also other supporters shout insults, but Den Haag has the name, so they are taken as an example(I think).

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: ralfinho Date: 02-03-2005, 00:41	Thanks for the replies, guys. As Feyenoord has to expect a severe punishment by UEFA, do they think about a camera surveillance of the stands like in England? That would prevent issues like that.

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: Ricardo Date: 02-03-2005, 08:44	I don't think it will help. Some throwers are probably already on tape, everybody knew it would be broacasted, so there were already 10 camera's or so. The only thing that helps is punish these people hard. Let them see and realise what they have done, and more specific: If other people think of doing the same let them know how terrible the punishment is.

Author: maciosgh
Date: 02-03-2005, 13:52

First of all - make the punishment work!!

For example the assault (or almost an assault) on Robbie Savage at the Burnley - Blackburn game was made by a guy that got a life ban on visiting English stadiums three years before!!

If you ban a person let's make sure he never ever goes to a football game.

Wisla - a one year ban from European Cups
Roma - no comment (I know lighter is not a knife but...)
Feyenoord - ????

Re: Feyenoord-Sporting
Author: ralfinho Date: 03-03-2005, 02:59	Ricardo, to punish these people hard is what I meant. I didn't know that they are already on some tapes. So, I thought you need cameras (and tapes) to catch them. Coming to the Roma/Frisk issue, I think it's really unbelievable that the throwers were not prosecuted. Pretendedly, they could not be identified. Does anybody believe that?