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Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: Geordiepar Date: 10-02-2005, 17:38	Has there been anything released showing the latest standings of the various associations? If so could someone please provide a link. Haven't seen anything about this so far.

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: fidox Date: 28-02-2005, 19:29	Try this link for the standing in december (in danish): http://www.dbu.dk/page.aspx?id=729

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: Gauss Date: 01-03-2005, 10:24	See Thread {a href=view.php?topic=20050225234758.xml>More Norweigians in Europe!?{/a>

Author: duncshine
Date: 23-03-2005, 12:07

Apologies if this has appeared elsewhere, but for anyone interested, the English Fair Play list appeared on the BBC web site last week, buried in an article about Tottenham not playing Intertoto...

Here is the link .

But to save time, the list is

1. Chelsea
2. Tottenham
3. Norwich
4. Charlton
5. Arsenal
6. Southampton
7. Crystal Palace
8. Fulham
9. Liverpool
10. West Brom

as of March 16th.

Ironic that Chelsea are top, given their relationship with UEFA!!!

Cheers

Dunc

Author: anita
Date: 23-03-2005, 23:31
Edited by: anita
at: 23-03-2005, 23:49

dunc, in your BBC-link following quote:

"When all European leagues are completed, the top three countries in the overall Fair Play table are rewarded with a Uefa Cup place.
England are currently in the top three"

Have someone misunderstood , or have UEFA established new rules? I seem to remember that the winning country got one spot, and that the other two places were drawn between the other nine(?) of the ten best countries?

Would have been interesting to see the coeffs for the teams fighting for FP-spot in England, how close it is.

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: eoinh Date: 24-03-2005, 00:29	I would say the BBC have just got it wrong.

Author: isidromv
Date: 24-03-2005, 09:36
Edited by: isidromv
at: 24-03-2005, 09:47

In Spain Barcelona is leading. Link to RFEF.

1 	FC Barcelona 	55 puntos
2 	Real Sociedad 	65 puntos
3 	Villarreal CF SAD	69 puntos
	RC Deportivo 	69 puntos
5 	RCD Mallorca 	75 puntos
6 	Valencia CF	79 puntos
7 	Real Madrid CF 	83 puntos
	Real Zaragoza SAD 	83 puntos
9 	RCD Espanyol SAD 	87 puntos
10 	Getafe CF		88 puntos (*)
	Athletic Club 	88 puntos (*)
12 	Levante UD 	91 puntos
13 	C At Madrid SAD	92 puntos
	CD Numancia 	92 puntos
15 	Real Betis 	94 puntos
16 	Albacete Balompié SAD	102 puntos
17 	C At Osasuna 	103 puntos
	Real Racing Club SAD 	103 puntos
19 	Sevilla FC 	105 puntos
20 	Málaga CF SAD	114 puntos

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: Lunaris Date: 24-03-2005, 11:03	the top places country gets one spot, and of all the others having more than 8 points there willl be a draw to determine the two other countries. so it must be different each year

Author: anita
Date: 24-03-2005, 11:46
Edited by: anita
at: 24-03-2005, 11:52

isidromv, I doubt that this Spanish FairPlay-list is the same as UEFA use. This list is for yellow and red cards, and the winner(s) in Primera and Segunda division will probably receive a (domestic) FairPlay-trophy, while UEFA have other conditions/terms as well. National team and supporter behaviour etc. And it all should be numbers like 8.071.

But of course, this list will hardly differ too much from UEFA's official list on Spanish FP-teams.

Read UEFA rules on Berts site (link): UEFA Fair Play Competition

Author: eoinh
Date: 24-03-2005, 11:52
Edited by: eoinh
at: 24-03-2005, 11:55

Anita,

I think that spainish list is correct. The UEFA list just tells you what order the countrys are in. The winner of each countrys fair play list is the representative of that particular country, so it doesn't really matter what way a domestic league organises their fair play system. For instance the Irish fair play winner was Cork City (who have already qualified for europe, in second was Drogheda UTD) - UEFA has no input in to that system I would imagine.

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: duncshine Date: 24-03-2005, 12:16	Anita, Sorry for the delay in replying. The BBC is just plain wrong. I wrote to tell them but got no response. Bless. Dunc

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: isidromv Date: 24-03-2005, 15:20 Edited by: isidromv at: 24-03-2005, 15:20	Anita. As eoinh mentioned, this is the domestic list used in Spain. The criteria are diferent from the ones used for UEFA to rank countries, but it is used to nominate the Spanish candidate for Fair Play spots. I would prefer a different system, because in this list Albacete is far away to qualify, as it also is in the league.

Author: Agent327
Date: 24-03-2005, 15:21

Since 1999/2000 FP team winners are awarded with a place in the UC.

In total 18 teams from 15 countries have started this way in UC Q1.
Of those teams only 4 were unseeded in Q1 and they all fail to qualify for the next round.
6 teams were eliminated while seeded in various stages of their UC campaign.

Only 1 team reached beyond UC R2, Rayo Vallecano.They were elminated in the QF against another spanish team, CD Alaves.

Is it fair to have a FP team in europe in terms of coefficients?
The answer is no.

Looking at the tabel below you can see there's only one country which has had a (small) positive effect of having a FP team in Europe.

Country	   ranking points       difference
         (incl. FP)(excl. FP)
Ukr	   8,10	    9,50        -1,40
Sco	   5,13	    6,50        -1,38
Cze	   6,20	    7,50        -1,30
Fra	  13,50	   14,75        -1,25
Bel	   7,00	    8,00        -1,00
Nor	   2,70	    3,38        -0,68
Nor	   5,20	    5,75        -0,55
Slk	   3,50	    4,00        -0,50
Eng	  11,25	   11,71        -0,46
Eng	  10,67	   11,13        -0,46
Fin	   1,38	    1,83        -0,46
Swe	   4,80	    5,25        -0,45
Den	   4,20	    4,50        -0,30
Bls	   0,75	    1,00        -0,25
Swe	   3,00	    3,00         0,00
Arm	   0,50	    0,50         0,00
Est	   0,00	    0,00         0,00
Esp	  16,61	   16,56         0,05

Author: isidromv
Date: 24-03-2005, 15:35
Edited by: isidromv
at: 24-03-2005, 16:02

Typically, FP qualified teams are worst than the teams qualified through league position, just because they finished below in the league.

So, the FP qualified team should get less points than the other ones and lower the country coefficient.

The case of Spain is because this season (2000/2001) Zaragoza lost in UC 1st round against Wisla (after a 4-1 win in first leg in Zaragoza) which lowered too much the Spanish coefficient.

Author: anita
Date: 24-03-2005, 16:03

Rayo only FP-team last six years to improve country coeff (with 0.049 points). Brann from Norway zero points in 2002 pulling Norway down 0.675 points. And Norway is so far in for a new FP-spot next season, since they are leading the UEFA FP-ranking.

As I several times before have argued on Forum, the system would be better if the FP-teams points only counted for themselves, and only for the country if their coeff were higher than country average. It MUST be a pre to play fair!

Author: Agent327
Date: 24-03-2005, 16:28
Edited by: Agent327
at: 24-03-2005, 16:37

Yep, I agree with you Anita.

It must be an advantage having a FP team in Europe, not the opposite.
Maybe a solution could be like this:
Points collected by FP teams will count for the country coefficients but they don't count as a team. (Example: You've got 5 teams in Europe including a FP team, but the points are divided by 4 teams)
In this case it will never hurt to have a FP team in Europe, on the contrary, it's a bonus.

The worst result of a FP team (2 losses) won't effect the countries coefficient at all, while just 1 draw has already an positive effect on your coefficient.

If you calculate the loss of coefficiency points with this solution the following table is emerging.

Country        ranking points      difference
           (incl. FP) (excl. FP)
Fra	    13,50      15,75	-2,25
Esp	    16,61      18,69	-2,08
Ukr	     8,10      10,13	-2,03
Bel	     7,00       8,75	-1,75
Sco	     5,13       6,83	-1,71
Eng	    11,25      12,86	-1,61
Cze	     6,20       7,75	-1,55
Eng	    10,67      12,00	-1,33
Swe	     4,80       6,00	-1,20
Slk	     3,50       4,67	-1,17
Den	     4,20       5,25	-1,05
Swe	     3,00       4,00	-1,00
Nor	     5,20       6,00	-0,80
Nor	     2,70       3,38	-0,68
Fin	     1,38       1,83	-0,46
Bls	     0,75       1,00	-0,25
Arm	     0,50       0,67	-0,17
Est	     0,00       0,00	 0,00

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: anita Date: 24-03-2005, 16:54	Have you been stealing my notes and tables, Agent327? Industrial espionage? I have looked at that idea, too, but found it may have too big impact the other way for countries with 3-4 teams originally. Anyway a lot better than this silly system where you are 95-100% certain to be punished on ranking if you play fair.

Author: Agent327
Date: 25-03-2005, 15:35

If you compare the current system with the two solutions as mentioned in replies above, the ranking would be slightly different, although sometimes 1 place higher (or lower) in the rankings can make a big impact.

Ranking 2003 would be the ranking used to determine the current season. Biggest change would be Belgium gaining one place to be 10th instead of Turkey.

Ranking 2004 is the ranking used for next season. It would have a very big influence on the 8th spot involving the Netherlands and Czech republic.Scotland (on place 10 instead of 11) would probably had their champion directly qualified for CL GS.

Ranking 2005 is the ranking used for 2006/2007 season. This ranking is still subject of change due to the fact this season isn't finished yet. At the moment only Sweden would have an positive effect with a different FP approach. (maybe someone should contact Johannson)

All in all Norway is the country which suffered the most with the current FP rules, while Turkey wins the most with it.

Solution 1 (S1): FP teams don't count at all.
Solution 2 (S2): FP teams don't count as a team for the coefficient ranking, but their points do.
Between brackets: Spots gained or lost in comparison with the current FP rules.

Rank Country          S1         S2 
2003
 1    Spain            1          1
 2    Italy            2          2
 3    England          3          3
 4    Germany          4          4
 5    France           5          5
 6    Greece           6          6
 7    Portugal         7          7
 8    Netherlands      8          8
 9    Scotland         9          9
10    Turkey         12(-2)     12(-2)
11    Belgium        10(+1)     10(+1)
12    Czech Republic 11(+1)     11(+1)
13    Switzerland     13         13
14    Ukraine         14         14
15    Israel          15         15
16    Austria         16         16
17    Poland          17        18(-1)
18    Russia         19(-1)     19(-1) 
19    Serbia-Mont.   20(-1)     20(-1)
20    Norway         18(+2)     17(+3)
21    Bulgaria        21        22(-1)
22    Croatia         22        23(-1)
23    Sweden          23        21(+2)
24    Denmark         24         24
25    Slovakia        25         25
26    Romania         26         26
27    Hungary         27         27
28    Cyprus          28         28
29    Slovenia        29         29
30    Finland         30         30
31    Latvia          31         31
32    Moldova         32         32
33    Georgia         33         33
34    Bosnia-Herz.    34         34
35    Lithuania       35         35
36    Iceland        37(-1)     37(-1)
37    Macedonia      38(-1)     38(-1)
38    Belarus        36(+2)     36(+2)
39    Ireland         39         39
40    Malta           40         40
41    Armenia         41         41
42    Wales           42         42
43    Liechtenstein   43         43
44    Albania         44         44
45    Estonia         45         45
46    N. Ireland      46         46
47    Luxembourg      47         47
48    Faroe Islands   48         48
49    Azerbaijan      49         49
50    Kazakhstan      50         50
51    Andorra         51         51
52    San Marino      52         52

Rank Country          S1         S2 
2004
 1    Spain            1          1
 2    England          2          2
 3    Italy            3          3
 4    Germany        5(-1)      5(-1)
 5    France         4(+1)      4(+1)
 6    Portugal         6          6
 7    Greece           7          7
 8    Netherlands    9(-1)      9(-1)
 9    Czech Republic 8(+1)      8(+1)
10    Turkey        11(-1)     11(-1)
11    Scotland      10(+1)     10(+1)
12    Belgium         12         12	
13    Switzerland   14(-1)     14(-1)
14    Ukraine       15(-1)     15(-1)
15    Norway        13(+2)     13(+2)
16    Poland          16         16
17    Israel          17         17
18    Austria         18         18
19    Serbia-Mont.    19         19
20    Bulgaria        20         20
21    Russia          21         21
22    Denmark         22         22
23    Croatia         23       24(-1)
24    Sweden          24       23(+1)
25    Hungary         25         25
26    Romania         26         26
27    Slovakia        27         27
28    Slovenia        28         28
29    Cyprus          29         29
30    Moldova         30         30
31    Latvia        32(-1)     32(-1)
32    Finland       31(+1)     31(+1)
33    Bosnia-Herz.    33         33
34    Georgia         34         34	
35    Macedonia       35         35
36    Lithuania       36         36
37    Belarus         37         37
38    Iceland         38         38 
39    Malta           39         39 	
40    Ireland         40         40 
41    Armenia         41         41		
42    Wales           42         42		
43    Liechtenstein   43         43		
44    Albania         44         44		
45    N. Ireland      45         45		
46    Estonia         46         46		
47    Luxembourg      47         47		
48    Azerbaijan      48         48		
49    Faroe Islands   49         49		
50    Kazakhstan      50         50		
51    Andorra         51         51		
52    San Marino      52         52

Rank Country          S1         S2 
2005
 1    Spain            1          1
 2    England          2          2
 3    Italy            3          3
 4    France           4          4
 5    Germany          5          5
 6    Portugal         6          6
 7    Netherlands      7          7
 8    Greece           8          8
 9    Belgium          9          9
10    Scotland        10         10
11    Turkey          11         11
12    Czech republic  12         12	
13    Ukraine         13         13
14    Austria         14         14
15    Russia          15         15
16    Israel          16         16
17    Serbia-Mont.    17         17
18    Poland          18         18
19    Switzerland   20(-1)     20(-1)
20    Norway        19(+1)     19(+1)
21    Bulgaria        21         21
22    Croatia         22         22
23    Denmark         23         23
24    Hungary         24       25(-1)
25    Romania       26(-1)     26(-1)
26    Sweden        25(+1)     24(+2)
27    Slovakia        27         27
28    Slovenia        28         28
29    Cyprus          29         29
30    Bosnia-Herz.    30         30
31    Latvia        32(-1)     32(-1)
32    Finland       31(+1)     31(+1)
33    Moldova         33         33
34    Georgia         34         34
35    Lithuania       35         35
36    Iceland         36         36
37    Macedonia       37         37
38    Ireland       39(-1)     39(-1) 
39    Belarus       38(+1)     38(+1)	
40    Liechtenstein   40         40 
41    Armania         41         41		
42    Malta           42         42		
43    Albania         43         43		
44    Estonia         44         44		
45    N. Ireland      45         45		
46    Wales           46         46		
47    Luxembourg      47         47		
48    Azerbaijan      48         48		
49    Faroe Islands   49         49		
50    Kazakhstan      50         50		
51    San Marino      51         51		
52    Andorra         52         52

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: Pro Date: 30-03-2005, 10:00	fair play suck from Russia

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: Pro Date: 30-03-2005, 10:03	CSKA champion of this Cup of UEFA!Ńîńŕňü óáëţäęč!

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: Pro Date: 30-03-2005, 10:03	Spartak champion CL 2006

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: Pro Date: 30-03-2005, 10:05	USA are sucking hard you are looser's!!!!

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: MEXX Date: 30-03-2005, 10:07	Pidorasi iz ME-2 vi zaebali!!

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: Pro Date: 30-03-2005, 10:07 Edited by: Pro at: 30-03-2005, 10:08	Vagner Love come back!!!! Niger's is dieD! ONIX

Re: Fair Play UEFA cup places
Author: Pro Date: 30-03-2005, 10:09	Sam ty pidor MEXX