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Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 02-02-2005, 12:05 Edited by: anita at: 02-02-2005, 12:17	This topic is about predicting the seeding/ranking in next seasons (2005-06) European cups according to the present standings in domestic leagues and cups. More info on links: Forzas site Ricardos site Duncans site Duncan has not updated later weeks, but will hopefully soon be in contention again. For those not familiar with Berts site (it has happened on this Forum!), Berts site

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: fenerli Date: 02-02-2005, 12:43	I want to thank the owners of these sites... It really good work and thanks anita for your posting.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: isidromv Date: 02-02-2005, 12:45	To Ricardo. I've noticed that you do not have dates for Spanish cup (Copa del Rey) semifinals and final. Just as a contribution to your site, have a look to Copa del Rey at Sportec.com.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 02-02-2005, 17:04	isidromv, if you look at Ricardos site, link Domestic leagues overview, you will see that he has a link to Copa del Rey to Marca.com after the standings in Spanish league. There is all the info about dates.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 02-02-2005, 18:26

isidromv,
thanks, actually I did not had those dates. I found the marca site, with all the results, and some interesting stories for those who understand Spanish, but no dates. I have put all I know on te sheet. I will add the Spanish dates and the Israel start (March 2nd) as were mentioned recently here on the forum (thanks). Many holes still exist. Whenever I run into them I will put them on my sheet.
By the way Anita, did you manage to open that one? It's rather large and Yahoo doesn't like it very much. Or did you download the file?

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 03-02-2005, 09:41	Yes, Uefa has changed their site again. The number of the table for the MS-Query is now 3 iso 10 (6 for not yet changed tables). For those who don't know what I'm talking about: forget it.

Author: anita
Date: 03-02-2005, 11:40

French League Cup Final 30th April: Caen-Strasbourg. The winner will attend Round 1 in UEFA-cup 2005-06. Both teams struggling in relegation zone, so no plus for France.

Ricardo, yes, uefa.com changed the 'MSQuery-positions'couple of days ago. At least they were consistent, and I obviously have another system than you (Office XP), with arrows, so it just took some minutes to correct it. But irritating anyway. I have saved several of the different uefa-query-solutions, in case uefa.com is changing their mind again. And again and.....

I had no problem opening Marca.com. or isidromv's site (thx, isidromv), if thats what you meant?

Author: Ricardo
Date: 03-02-2005, 11:58
Edited by: Ricardo
at: 03-02-2005, 12:02

Thanks Anita. I'm not sure if old times will com back. It used to be table 12 on the page, then 11, then 10 and now it is 3 or 6. The numbers are getting lower and lower.
About my site: what I meant is that if you take a look in the Domestic League overview Yahoo block my site after that for an hour as the datathroughput has crossed a limit. I will think of a more limited overview of that page, so it can be a bit smaller.

And indeed France has already now a non seeded particiapnt in UC-R1. Not good for them

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 03-02-2005, 16:43	Not a real change for France (for now), because the winner of the League Cup replaces Toulouse, which also was unseeded. Why can't UEFA just keep the same tables for the leagues. Now I have to update the links again.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 04-02-2005, 11:03
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 04-02-2005, 11:07

I had a lot work again to update the links to the tables. Stupid UEFA.com

But here's the update after the midweek matches: update 5 Feb

Changes compared to Monday:

Athletic now inside Intertoto top 3

Hertha up to Pot A in UEFA R2
Benfica up to Pot B

This is all because the French League Cup results. Caen replaces Toulouse in UEFA-cup (that gives no changes), but Bordeaux is now not on an Intertoto-spot, so Athletic Bilbao takes their place in the "top 3".

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 07-02-2005, 11:36	Update after this weekends matches (see here). Changes compared to Friday: Basel now seeded in CL Q3 Galatasaray up to Pot B in CL R1 Dynamo Kyiv up to Pot C Palermo now seeded in UEFA R1 Ajax and Hertha down to Pot B in UEFA R2 Slavia Praha down to Pot C

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: oyvin Date: 07-02-2005, 13:42	It seems like both Forza and Ricardo put Romania (Steaua) to enter in CLQ2, and Poland (Wisla) in CLQ3? I'm confused... Shouldn't they both enter one step earlier, like Duncan says (if the format is similar to this season)?

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 07-02-2005, 15:46
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 07-02-2005, 15:56

That depends on the fact if there is a Title Holder. I assume for the moment that Real Madrid wins the CL this year, as they have the highest coefficient.
Indeed if a team wins the CL that doesn't qualify via the league (and doesn't come from Spain, Italy or England, as they can have maximum 4 teams in the CL, so when the CL-winner is not in the top 4, the number 4 won't play CL) then Poland, Romania and Slovakia start one round earlier.
Not very likely that this will occur.

So only when Leverkusen, Bayern München (unlikely to be outside top 3 in Germany), Werder, Monaco, Lyon (unlikely to be outside top 3 in France), PSV (very unlikely to be outside top 2 in Netherlands) or Porto win CL and don't qualify, then there is a title holder.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 08-02-2005, 15:32

To give an abstract overview. There are 4 scenarios still possible:
1. Titleholder has qualified for Round 1:
2. Titleholder has qualified for Q3
3. Titleholder does not qualify(Spain, England, Itlay)
4. Titleholder does not qualify(Germany, France, Portugal, Holland)

Scenario 1.
Tur1 plays: R1
Pol1 plays: Q3
Rom1 plays: Q2
Svk1 plays: Q2

Scenario 2.
Tur1 plays: Q3
Pol1 plays: Q3
Rom1 plays: Q2
Svk1 plays: Q2

Scenario 3.
Nr 4 of that country does not qualify for CL(Q3)
Tur1 plays: Q3
Pol1 plays: Q3
Rom1 plays: Q2
Svk1 plays: Q2

Scenario 4.
Tur1 plays: Q3
Pol1 plays: Q2
Rom1 plays: Q1
Svk1 plays: Q1

Author: iwan
Date: 08-02-2005, 20:18

When the title-holder off the CL was placed for the CL too in the national competition than the champions of the nrs-10,-16,-27 an -28 off the ranking
can play each one CL-QR less!!

I find it better to give the nr-7 of the ranking one member more and the nr-7 must give away one UC-place instead, the nrs-9 and -10 must revceive each one member more in the 2nd UC-QR.

When the winner of the UC is qualified too, then the cupwinners of the nrs-11 and -12 of the ranking can play each one UC-QR les, I find it better to give them each one place more.

Then the 4-th place in the national comptetions(NC's) give the football one demension more, what the holder will do in the NC,
will diside ore they can play too. And the 3rd place by the number-7 can play CL too.

Author: anita
Date: 10-02-2005, 12:00
Edited by: anita
at: 10-02-2005, 12:05

Just to sum up the scenarioes so far (CL 1/8-finals and present standings in domestic leagues):

Scenario 1: 10 teams
Scenario 2: Arsenal and Inter
Scenario 3: Liverpool
Scenario 4: Werder, Leverkusen and Monaco

Giving just now the Turkish champs 10/16 = 62.5% chance to go directly to CL Group Stage, Polish champs 13/16 = 81.25% to start in CLQ3 instead of CLQ2, and ROM/SVK champs 13/16 to start in CLQ2 instead of CLQ1.

For ROM/SVK it may actually be an advantage to start in CLQ1. Their teams will be seeded, and they should easily go through and thereby pick up valuable UEFA-points for their countries.

If the polish champs have to start in CLQ2, they will be seeded there, and should normally go through to CLQ3, but a little handful of tricky unseeded opponents (Dinamo Tbilisi...)

For Turkish champs the impact of starting in CLQ3 instead of CL Group Stage may prove crucial. Galatasaray (and Besiktas) will be seeded in CLQ3, but Fenerbahce and Trabzonspor will be unseeded, making the road to CLGS extremely much longer. According to statistics, just 2-3 unseeded CLQ3-teams qualify for CLGS.

Fenerbahce may match most of the seeded teams, and will not be a wanted opponent for seeded CLQ3-teams, but I presume they prefer to start in CLGS instead of the "long and windy road". Well, they have to win Tur CS first...

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: fenerli Date: 10-02-2005, 13:10	Quote.anita ...Well, they have to win Tur CS first... Do not worry about that :-)

Author: ATHAKE
Date: 10-02-2005, 14:21
Edited by: ATHAKE
at: 10-02-2005, 14:25

Shut up loser

Its never seen that fenerbahtze eliminate a seeded team at Q3 or Q2, oh sorry i missed a very seeded team G.Rangers, then zero point(s)also...

It'll have been very funny if Fener-Arsenal or Ýnter or match at Q3

))

What'll happen 2 years later, there wont be a champ opsion,
championship this year is in the pocket, wake up men

) we'll see it 19th of may

)

All of that bigness,world team,CL winner at 2007 is dream, the fact, u r losers

)

Do not sigma us anymore,olomuc.its enough

))

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 11-02-2005, 14:28	Hardly any matches during midweek, so no changes in the seedings this time.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 11-02-2005, 15:22

Yeah, a weak week, just a greek cup-match, not even a return, so no team eliminated! All quiet before the storm breakes out in Europe.
In the next 5 weeks, 4 weeks will have midweek CL and/or UC matches. 64 of all 96 teams still playing will find their Waterloo. Most ranking issues that are still open will be solved.

So there won't be much time for checking on Domestic leagues. Therefor I added to my site a new sheet: Domestic Progress, one that gives a 1-screen status-overview of all leagues and cups: how many games still to play and what's difference between nr1 and nr2! have a look if you are interested.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 12-02-2005, 00:00	Nice work, Ricardo. With some interesting details. Thanks. btw: I guess its 32 teams out of 48 that will be out in the next weeks.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 12-02-2005, 16:35	Yes Ralfino, you are right, I somehow doubed the teams, by confusing matches and teams, but whatever reason: 32 out of 48 is the one you should remember.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: EarlofBug Date: 12-02-2005, 18:11	@Ricardo: Would'nt it be 24 out of 48 in the next two weeks? We are playing cup system now.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 12-02-2005, 22:56	Within the next five years, we will have two UC rounds. So 24 of 32 UC teams will be out. Plus 8 of 16 CL teams. Makes 32 of 48.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 12-02-2005, 23:24	ralfinho, at least it has felt like five YEARS since they played UC/CL-matches.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 13-02-2005, 03:20	Exactly, anita. Of course, I meant five weeks.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 14-02-2005, 12:11	Update after this weekends matches (see here). Changes compared to Friday: Basel now not seeded in CL Q3 Dynamo Kyiv down to Pot D in CL R1 Slavia Prague up to Pot B in UEFA R2

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: duncshine Date: 14-02-2005, 22:09 Edited by: duncshine at: 14-02-2005, 22:19	Hi all, With apologies for the extended absence. Just to let you know that my site, such as it is, has been updated:- Click here League tables plus the UEFA and CL seeding predictions. Cheers Dunc

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 16-02-2005, 00:00	Forza, if I see things right then you comment here only shifts within the CL and the UC. I think major changes affect teams going into or out of the competitions. So, in Germany we had a major change last weekend with Stuttgart falling from CL(Q3) to UC and Bremen going the opposite way.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 16-02-2005, 09:46	Yes, especially because Bremen still plays CL it is important(Titleholder position)!

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 16-02-2005, 11:52	You're right. But comparing that every time takes a lot of time and just comparing the old and new seeding list is done easlily. That's why I only mention the teams that shifted to another seeding pot every time.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 16-02-2005, 23:45	I see, Forza. Thx for the explanation.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 18-02-2005, 09:14

This weeks matches caused only little changes like Bayern jumping over Porto. Though both not playing, the Germans teams did better than the Portuguese. This might be interesting fir pot-A seeding, but well ,they both still are in the CL and have Arsenal and Juve trainling them.
Basel jumped over Wisla to get seedin in Q3 (current standing). And maybe more important(?) Lille jumped over Lokomotiv and Rosenborg. Might Lille fall to 3rd position in French league.
In the UC CSKA made a big move over 11 teams and will now be seeded in Round 1 (and so planned to be in the grouphase!). With the knowledge that Benfica will have big trouble overturning the 2-0, it's looking good for CSKA!
P.S. If you can't wait for Forza to update his page check mine

Author: anita
Date: 18-02-2005, 12:35

With CSKA's win yesterday, Russia have secured 15th place on UEFA country ranking (on behalf of Israel), meaning Russia will have one team in CLQ2 and one in CLQ3 in season 2006/07 (i.e. not next season, but in 2006/07), while Israel just will have one (in CLQ2).

So even if some countries still may change place on UEFA ranking this season, this will have no impact for the quotas for 2006/07-season

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 18-02-2005, 13:06	Anita, I think you are too quick. The only thing we can say after last night is that Israel is out of the competition for 2 CL places. Don't rule out Basel and Partizan yet! Basel is 6 points behind, Partizan 7. Together with CSKA decent performance it is unlikely that these 2 will catch up, but it is too early to close the books. Also the catching of Scotland by Fenerbahce also is far far away.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 18-02-2005, 20:25
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 18-02-2005, 20:28

Update after midweek matches (a bit later on the day as usual, because I'm only back from Köln (Alemannia-AZ) for about 4 hours): http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net.

Changes compared to Monday:

Basel now seeded in CL Q3
Wisla now unseeded

Dynamo Kyiv up to Pot C in CL R1
Werder Bremen down to Pot D

CSKA Moscow now seeded in UEFA R1
Palermo now unseeded

Ajax up to Pot A in UEFA R2
Villarreal down to Pot B
Middlesbrough up to Pot C
Espanyol down to Pot D

PS: Watch out, UEFA has started with league tables for the new season. Estonia is the first with the table for the next season!!

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: duncshine Date: 18-02-2005, 23:35	Hi Forza, Yes, I noticed UEFA had done that. RSSSF has put some 2005 leagues up too. I've decided to leave them until the 2004/5 winter leagues are done, to avoid confusion. I converted all the Summer leagues to pure text so they wouldn't automatically update! Cheers Dunc

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 19-02-2005, 19:32	Done the same, and I was wondering what I had done wrong when deleting MSQueries for finished leagues, but after a moment of moderate panic I observed that uefa.com for the time being has just counted 12 teams in Portugal. Normal procedure from uefa.com....

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 20-02-2005, 10:33 Edited by: Munja at: 20-02-2005, 13:57	Forza, Ricardo, Duncan: It looks like you got some more competition - me. Though, ill focus my work on some things you did not do yet. check it if you want. Almost all clubs that can qualify this season and little more

Author: MichaelCollins
Date: 20-02-2005, 13:10

Right had a wee look at Forza's site.

So, I'd say Celtic are almost certainly in Pot B (crosses fingers) as if I know my coefficients well (well, possibly) then their nearest rivals for that Pot (Club Brugge and Anderlecht) are out and hopefully Schalke and Sporting can not gain enough points needed to overhaul them.

Hearts should be seeded again in ROund 1 of UEFA Cup (a good thing). Now we just need 21 other UEFA CUp spots to go in our favour to seed Hibs!

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 20-02-2005, 13:51	I think you better concentrate on Chelsea's, Stuttgart AS Roma's and Leverkusens results. Sporting and Schalke won't catch Celtic

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 20-02-2005, 14:23	Roma and Stuttgart wont make the Group Stages (if they even qualify for the CL - Roma might, but the top three in Germany currently look stronger than VfB) And Chelsea are in Group B already so surely they wont be of concern to Celtic - whatever Chelsea do they cant TAKE Celtic's pot B place.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 21-02-2005, 08:13	I updated my site. No big changes in The list. Only Chelsea out of cup.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 21-02-2005, 13:00	Update after the weekend: http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net/. Changes compared to Friday: Wisla now seeded in CL Q3 Arsenal up to Pot A in CL R1 Club Brugge up to Pot B Bremen up to Pot C (all because Valencia is out of CL now) Athletic Bilbao out of Intertoto top 3 Palermo now seeded in UEFA R1 Partizan and Shakthar up to Pot C in UEFA R2 Maccabi Haifa up to Pot D

Author: Ricardo
Date: 21-02-2005, 16:03

Big chances are caused by teamsreplacements in Belgium: Anderlecht is replaced by Genk(Bel2) causing Bel2 to be Not seeded(Wisla taking the seeded-spot). Another change is Valenicas replacement by Betis(Esp4). Both are seeded in CL-Q3, but Betis is almost the lowest team in round 1. Also for CL-R1 is of Boavista taking 3rd Portuguese spot. The Lille/Marseill change(Fra2) seems of no importance(yet).
All changes can be undone next week again ofcourse, but it shows that there are numerous possibility for (e.g) Rosenbirg to be seede in Q3.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 22-02-2005, 23:58 Edited by: Munja at: 22-02-2005, 23:59	I updated my site. There were only coefficient changes and one game. I added some more leagues, changed site design. I also added Partizan's expected formation for thursday (you may have problem with picture loading, but it is deffinitely there and link works). As always, my site is here

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: duncshine Date: 24-02-2005, 14:14	Et le mien aussi. Anita, At the beginning of the season we thought that Rosenborg might drop out of seeding all together. Looks like they've got a good chance now! Dunc

Author: anita
Date: 24-02-2005, 16:41

dunc, I never gave up hopes for Rosenborg. But - I sing a lot myself, but we will have to wait for the fat lady first

Anyway, Rosenborg is in bad shape nowadays (cfr. Royal League), and maybe UEFA-cup is a more suitable tournament for them next season.

I hope that Wisla may be seeded or go through to CLGS next season after this seasons unlucky seeding (17th), their draw (Real Madrid), their terrible campaign in UCR1 (Dinamo Tbilisi), and the whining from Polish contributors on Forum

Author: duncshine
Date: 24-02-2005, 17:55

I can't see Wisla being seeded I'm afraid.

Sevilla could easily be replaced by Valencia and Villarreal, who have higher coefficients.

Come to think of it, the remaining results of other Spanish teams in Europe will probably push Sevilla ahead of Wisla anyway.

Mind you, if Wisla win in Q2, and Celtic, Galatasary, Dinamo Kyiv or Lokomotiv Moskva go out, that would help.

My gut says Wisla unseeded, but I hope they draw a Basel rather than, say, Internazionale or Arsenal.

Dunc

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 25-02-2005, 00:26	Yes, Duncan. Or AZ is replaced by Ajax. Or Genk by Anderlecht. Or Everton by Liverpool (quite unlikely, I know). Or Sampdoria by Roma. If all of this happens, even Rosenborg would be unseeded. However, quite unlikely. And of course not desirable.

Author: anita
Date: 25-02-2005, 00:49

No, I don't think Wisla will be seeded. This season they just needed a little luck (Monaco/Porto), this year they need more than a miracle. But as dunc mentions, they don't have to draw Real Madrid every time.

And I still fear that Rosenborgs seeding fate were nailed when Lokomotiv Moscow won RUS PL. But - I have more hope for seeding now than a couple of months ago (Everton, Genk, AZ, even Spain and Italy may get unseeded team). Why not Braga on third place in Portugal?

Author: Ricardo
Date: 25-02-2005, 09:29

Yes Duncshine, that is actually already what has happened: Sevilla got enough points to pass Wisla (&Basle&Betis) into the seeded spot. With 2 more points against Parma they will even pass Rosenborg and Lok Moskou(with a little help of other Spanish teams).

Due to the matches yesterday Austria jumped into the seeded group of UC-round 1, pushing Palermo out and Steaua jumped 10 places to be at the edge of the seede teams (place 41). Genk is about to fall out.
Steaua's win also let Romanian second team National jump over Croatia's Rijeka which might be just the seeding-line for the south-group - Steaua's win could mean more than just a surprise win!

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 25-02-2005, 12:24

Update after midweek matches: http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net/.

Because Valencia is eliminated I now have Parma as the UEFA-cup winners, and because they are not on a CL or UEFA-cup spot in Italy (far from that even), I now have a titleholder spot, and so the 2nd Scottish, Romanian and Hungarian teams start one round earlier now.
And to make the number of teams even in the 2nd qualifying round I shifted one of the Polish teams to the Northern Zone.

Changes compared to Monday:

Sevilla now seeded in CL Q3
Wisla now not seeded

Lille up to Pot C in CL R1

Athletic now inside Intertoto top 3
Liberec out of top 3

Tbilisi now not seeded in UEFA Q1 (because of more teams in region)

Hammarby now not seeded in UEFA Q2

Austria now seeded in UEFA R1
Sampdoria and Palermo now not seeded

Villarreal up to Pot A in UEFA R2
Monaco and Ajax down to Pot B
PAOK and Slavia Praag down to Pot C
Shakhtar down to Pot D
Maccabi Haifa down to Pot E

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: alexx Date: 25-02-2005, 13:50	Forza you still have 21.2. data.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 25-02-2005, 17:47	No, I haven't. Maybe the old one was still in your history or so. Just refresh the page.

Author: Munja
Date: 25-02-2005, 19:57
Edited by: Munja
at: 25-02-2005, 19:59

I updated my site. There were some changes due to UEFA cup games and changes of club coefficients. There is also one club less on my list - Alemannia Aachen.

NEW!!! Fixtures lists!!! I put fixtures lists for this weekend for 14 leagues. I also updated cup fixtures list (top 28 countries).

I added two reviews of Dnipro-Partizan match. If you have time, read them. I think that review written by D.S. can be compared whith ones from newspapers! Link: http://www.geocities.com/yufudbal/myview/dnipro1.htm

Last change is counter! I finaly managed to instal it on my homepage. It is the same as on Bert's page. So visit my page and increase my trafic (and thus make me hapy

).
http://www.geocities.com/yufudbal/

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: alexx Date: 26-02-2005, 18:19	Great stuff Munja !

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Heero Date: 27-02-2005, 16:54	Is it right that Glasgow Rangers is already qualified for European football?

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 27-02-2005, 17:26	No. There is play-off in Scotland and that gives 5 more matches and chance that Rangers finish below 3rd position.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 27-02-2005, 22:33	Hmmm. With Austria Wiens win tonite Austria passed Norway on preliminary country ranking 2005/06 (and 2006/07), so Norway will now start on 20th place next season.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 28-02-2005, 10:46	I've just updated my site. Two teams got off list: Livingston and Clyde. There is some more changes. Ovde kliknuti

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 28-02-2005, 12:59

Update after the weekend (see here) , with new Fair Play teams, according to the list UEFA anounced. To make an even number of teams I shifted the 3rd Polish team back to the region they belong. Only team that is outside their region is the Liechtenstein team.

Changes compared to Friday:

Arsenal down to Pot B in CL R1

Liberec now inside Intertoto top 3

Cork now not seeded in UEFA Q1

Zeta now seeded in UEFA Q2
Tromso now unseeded in UEFA Q2

Monaco up to Pot A in UEFA R2
Partizan and Udinese down to Pot D

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 02-03-2005, 22:49	Villareal now up on CLQ3-spot in Spain, and with 52.995 points guaranteed seeding there. Without their participation (and win) in Intertoto-cup two latest seasons, they would have had 23.995 points and guaranteed unseeded in CLQ3. So maybe e.g Everton should have thought of that. Recent years I think the average is that 2-3 of 16 unseeded teams go through to CL group stage from CLQ3.

Author: Agent327
Date: 03-03-2005, 14:59

Some facts since the introduction of three Qualification Rounds in the CL in 1999/2000 (6 seasons including 2004/2005)

Since then 18 countries never were ranked high enough to start in CLQ2 (or higher)
(Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan(a), Bosnia-Herzegovina(b), Estonia, Faraoer Islands, Finland, Iceland, Ireland, Kazakhstan(c), Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Moldova, Northen Ireland & Wales)

Of those countries 4 of them (Faraoer Islands, Kazakhstan, Luxembourg & Northern Ireland) never succeeded to qualify for the next round,

while 2 countries (Estonia, Wales) just had 1 successful attempt to reach the next stage.

No team started in the Q1 ever made it to the CL groupstage.
Only 12 times a club from Q1 made it to Q3.
Serbia-Montenegro & Moldava were 2 times succesfull in doing that,
while Bosnia-Herzegowina, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland, Latvia, Macedonia & Slovenia succeeded 1 time.

Moldova is the only country with 6 (out of 6) successful attempts to reach Q2

, with Finland as runner-up (5 out of 6)
Other countries with a 100% record are (between brackets number of seasons)
Bulgaria (3), Cyprus (2), Serbia-Montenegro (2) & Slovenia (1)

Countries which never made it to CL Q3 are
Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Faraoer, Georgia, Iceland,
Kazakhstan, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Northen Ireland and Wales
Of all those countries only Georgia (2 times) and Belarus (1 time) had a start in CL Q2 instead of Q1.

(a) In the season 2002/2003 & 2003/2004 Azerbaijan didn't take part in the UEFA club competition because there was no (proper)domestic league in the seasons prior to that.
(b) No clubs from Bosnia and Herzegovina were admitted to the European competitions of 1999/2000 because its qualifying tournament was cancelled.
(c) Kazakhstan only played UEFA Club Competitions in the seasons 2002/2003 & 2003/2004.

(to be continued......)

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 03-03-2005, 23:09	New update: fixtures for 15 leagues for this weekend. http://www.geocities.com/yufudbal/

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 04-03-2005, 13:38	Update after midweek matches: http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net/ Changes compared to Monday: Basel now not seeded in CL Q3 Arsenal up to Pot A in CL R1 Lille down to Pot D Steaua now seeded in UEFA R1 Monaco down to Pot B in UEFA R2 Austria Wien up to Pot D

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ursus Date: 04-03-2005, 20:30	As a Rosenborg supporter I have to support the underdogs in the top leagues this spring. :-) Hopefully Sevilla, Everton, Sampdoria, Lille, AZ Alkmaar and Trabzonspor keep their good form and get places in the CL qual.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 06-03-2005, 11:00	I included Israel cup results in today's update. Ofcourse, everything else is there too. www.geocities.com/yufudbal/

Author: Sami.Jukkasjarvi
Date: 07-03-2005, 01:17

In addition to giving predictions about who is likely/unlikely to be seeded in CLQ3, UEFAR1, UEFAR2, can you also please give the minimum coefficients enough to be seeded in:

1)CLQ3 (35?)
2)CLGroupStage Pot 1 (102?), Pot 2 (66?), Pot 3 (41?), Pot 4
3)UEFAR1 (16?)
4)UEFAR2 Pot 1 (43?), Pot 2 (30?), Pot 3 (20?), Pot 4 (15?), Pot 5

League standings change every week and so do team who may/may not be seeded but I think these numbers can be predicted well.

On the other hand, it seems that earlier predictions are based on the assumption that teams with higher coefficients always go through, and this changes things a lot!

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 07-03-2005, 11:29	Sami.,all this depend a little on title defenders place, if it will be used. And (in CL) even which country the title defender may come from. But just now Slavia Praha (35.222) is 16th (and last seeded) in CLQ3, and Genk (19.475) is last team seeded in UCR1.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 07-03-2005, 11:42	Update after the weekend: http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net/ Changes compared to Friday: Club Brugge down to Pot C in CL R1 Bremen down to Pot D Tbilisi now seeded in UEFA Q1 Torpedo Kutaisi now unseeded Zeleznik now seeded in UEFA Q2 Jablonec now unseeded Steaua now unseeded in UEFA R1 PAOK up to Pot B in UEFA R2 Partizan up to Pot C Austria down to Pot E

Author: anita
Date: 07-03-2005, 11:58

The Turkish champions will start in CL group stage unless CL Title holder is not qualified for CL through domestic league. Just now Liverpool, Leverkusen, Arsenal, Monaco, Werder and Inter may stop Tur champs from direct qualification. Big impact for Fenerbache, since they will be unseeded if they start in CLQ3. Gala will be seeded.

Polish champs (Wisla?!) originally start in CLQR2, but will start in CLQ3 if CL Title holder is qualified either for CL, CLQ3, or come from Italy, Spain or England. So far this goes for Leverkusen and Monaco. I think both teams will be eliminated in CL this weeek...But things may still change in domestic leagues. If Wisla start in CLQ3, Hajduk Split will be seeded in CLQ2 (10.979).

Author: Ursus
Date: 07-03-2005, 12:51

During the weekend Rosenborg dropped one place after Benfica passed Sporting in the Portugese Superliga.

In other words: I won't support Karadas & Co. during the last half of the season. :-P

If Rosenborg end in the seeded group, Rapid Wien seem like a great draw. I also think AZ Alkmaar will have trouble following up their great performances this season, and therefore can be an opponent we can cope with.

But still much can happen both on Rosenborg's seeding and the positions in Austria and Holland...

Author: anita
Date: 07-03-2005, 13:09

Hi, Bjørn (?). Actually you should support Benfica, hoping they will take third place (exactly). If Benfica is gonna go ahead of Rosenborg on ranking this season, Sporting need to take 10 points more in UC.

And several of us are quite surprised that Rosenborg is still in seeded group in CLQ3. Last season Dynamo Kiev was 16th seeded team in CLQ3 with 41.301 points. On the other hand, it was quite a gap down to first unseeded team Wisla (31.177), but they would have been seeded if Monaco had won CL-04.

And Wisla supporters eat their hearts out. If they hadn't lost to Dinamo Tbilisi in UCR1, they would probably have passed Lokomotiv Moskva this season on ranking, and being seeded in CLQ3 2005-06. As it looks now.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 07-03-2005, 13:20	In my calculations Rosenborg dropped 2 places, as Galatasaray rose to second place in Turkey

Author: macaskil
Date: 07-03-2005, 13:48

Aberdeen have in recent weeks put themselves back into 4th place ahead of Hearts and now the Scottish situation looks like this

Celtic - slight favourites to win the SPL (if they win game in hand)

EC Q3 - seeded.

EC R1 - Pot B

Rangers - now look likely to finish 2nd

EC Q2 - seeded

EC Q3 - seeded

EC R1 - Pot C

Hibernian - 3rd (also likely to be Cup Final Losers)

UC Q2 - seeded

UC R1 - unseeded

Aberdeen - 4th

UC Q2 - seeded

UC R1 - unseeded

Though I'm an Aberdeen supporter, I find myself wanting Hearts to qualify for the UC as they have a much better coefficient! They have 2 chances to do this

(a) beat Celtic and then Hibs or Dundee U to win Scottish Cup

(4th UC place to Hibs)

(b) overtake Aberdeen in the SPL

(3rd UC place to Hibs)

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: neill Date: 07-03-2005, 14:09	MacAskil, I find it astonishing that an Aberdeen supporter would want Hearts to qualify for the UEFA cup instead of your own team. However, as a Hearts fan, I can understand your logic as Hearts would stand a great chance of qualifying for the UEFA group stages again, and possibly beyond, whereas I think Hibs or Aberdeen would struggle to beat any seeded team.

Author: macaskil
Date: 07-03-2005, 14:20

Just being realistic. Aberdeen are just not ready for European football and I fear an embarrassing result (in 2001 we lost to Bohemians Dublin). Better for the Scottish teams to get a decent coefficient next season - Hearts with a coefficient of 22 will be seeded in UC R1 and an outside chance of a Pot C seeding in the group stage. If we have 2 unseeded teams in UC R1 then we could have an even worse season than this time. If the current Aberdeen team holds together and gains experience we will be in a better position to enter Europe in 2006.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: neill Date: 07-03-2005, 16:16	Again, I see your logic. Dunfermline Athletic were very excited about qualifying for Europe this season for the first time in 34 years but I bet they wish they hadn't bothered after their embarassing exit to Harfnarfjordur!

Author: Agent327
Date: 08-03-2005, 10:07

Facts about CL Q2.
Only 5 countries started every season with their (only) representative in CL Q2. Their ranking was between 17th and 27th place. Hungary, Poland, Romania, Slovakia & Sweden.

Poland has a 100% record to qualify for CL Q3 but also failed every time to reach the groupstage.
Other countries with no loss in Q2 are (In brackets no. of times participated)
Austria (4), Czech Rep. (4), Portugal (2), Scotland (4), Serbia (6), Ukraine (6)
Countries with one hick up.
Belgium, Denmark & Hungary (5 times out of 6), Turkey (3-4), Bosnia (1-2)
Norway & Sweden reached 4 out of 6 times the next round.

Facts about CL Q3.
There are 13 countries with participations in CL Q3 but failing to qualify for GS (in brackets number of teams/times they participated)
Denmark (7), Poland (6), Hungary (5), Slovakia (3)
Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Moldova & Romania (2)
Finland, Ireland, Latvia & Macedonia (1)

Most succesfull in CL Q3 is Spain (9 out of 10), followed by England (8-9), Belgium (7-8), France, Norway & Russia (all 5-6)
Just below that are Italy & Ukraine (8-11), Germany (7-9) & Turkey (6-8)

Facts about CL GS.
Only 13 countries have entered the CL GS directly
Spain (14 times/teams), Italy (13), England, France, Germany (each 12), Netherlands (10), Greece (8), Portugal (5), Russia & Turkey (3), Czech Republic (2), Norway & Scotland (1)

Total participations in GS (between brackets maximum possible if they had qualified):

no. country       in GS    % in GS  % qualified 
                                     from CL QR
 1. Spain        23 (24)     96%        90%
 2. Italy        21 (24)     88%        73%
 3. England      20 (21)     95%        89%
 4. Germany      19 (21)     90%        78%
 5. France       17 (18)     94%        83%
 6. Netherlands  14 (16)     88%        67%
 7. Greece       12 (14)     86%        67%
 8. Turkey        9 (12)     75%        67%
 9. Ukraine       8 (11)     73%        73%
10. Russia        8 (11)     73%        63%
11. Belgium       7  (9)     78%        78%
12. Portugal      7 (12)     58%        29%
13. Norway        6  (9)     67%        63%
14. Scotland      6  (9)     67%        63%
15. Czech rep.    5 (12)     42%        30%
16. Sweden        2  (6)     33%        33%
17. Israel        2  (7)     29%        29%
18. Austria       2 (10)     20%        20%
19. Slovenia      1  (6)     17%        17%
20. Serbia        1  (6)     17%        17%
21. Croatia       1  (8)     13%        13%
22. Switzerland   1  (8)     13%        13%

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Frankiebhoy Date: 08-03-2005, 10:34	Does anyone know when a venue for the 2006 and 2007 CL and UC Finals will be decided? Which stadiums are bidding for these events?

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Osirius Date: 08-03-2005, 10:37	I know that Luzhniki in Moscow one of the contenders,but they need to change the artificial pitch for the one that is more modern.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 08-03-2005, 12:56	Agent 327, interesting info. Goes to my "Funny EC-facts"-file. Whenever you're bored, you may make a list over unseeded teams (countries) advancing from different Q-rounds. And how many unseeded teams in CLQ2 that have reached CLGS. (I know Molde (Norway) did in 99/00.).

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 08-03-2005, 13:44	After Bragas win yesterday, they are now in CLQ3 (unseeded), and Basel is seeded in CLQ3. And of course Wisla (as usual) just outside seeding in CLQ3

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: duncshine Date: 08-03-2005, 13:47	Yes, Anita, I have Braga unseeded too. My latest figures are done. Dunc

Author: Ricardo
Date: 08-03-2005, 15:28

Anita, and other Rosenborg or Slavia or Lok. Moskou supporters: new date for Ajax-AZ will be april 7, unless Alkmaar qualifies for next round. This might be important for Dutch second place and so for the Dutch CLQ3 team.
I understand that you all are hoping that AZ will win the tie against Shaktar, as Shaktar is closer to your team as AZ, and one of those two teams will progress. Forza will also be happy with all your support!!

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 08-03-2005, 16:31	In the case AZ even reaches the semifinals of the UEFA-cup (not likely, but I keep hoping ), then Ajax-AZ can't be played before 11 May. Then it will be a really decisive match, as then only 2 matchrounds remain after the match.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 10-03-2005, 19:30	So after Partizans draw at home, they need to win in Moscow, thereby getting one point tonite, two in Moscow + one bonus point. Then SerbiaM will be 2.7 points behind Russia, needing three more points in UCQF to take the 15th place on UEFA Country Ranking 2004/05, and thereby two teams in CLQ season 2006/07 (one in CLQ2 and one in CLQ3).

Author: sr_sofisticacao
Date: 11-03-2005, 00:00

This is a fun topic. Especifically because you all keep updating it every week!
And the links offered here are interesting too. Keep up the good work so that lazy guys like me, that are interested to do this but could never find the time to do it can have fun watching the evolution of the positions.
By the way, Braga will never go to the CL next year. But I still believe my club (2nd division Amadora) might go as unseeded to the UEFA cup and defeat Liverpool in the first round (Liverpool will never win the CL this year).

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: duncshine Date: 11-03-2005, 11:52	Hajduk now seeded in Q2 of CL on my site That's the Croatian team, not the Serbian strugglers. Cheers Dunc

Author: triki
Date: 11-03-2005, 12:59

Dunc, you've made a mistake, Partizan is still 1st in Ser&Mon first league, altought uefa.com says that it's Crvena Zvezda.

Belgrade rivals have same number of points,
HtH is only one game (0:0), and Partizan have better goal difference:
1 Partizan 15 13 2 0 41:8 31 41
2 Crvena zvezda 16 13 3 1 40:11 29 41

you can take a look at:
http://www.fsj.co.yu/liga.asp?scombo1=2&scombo2=17&combo1=2&combo2=16

Author: anita
Date: 11-03-2005, 13:44

Thx, triki. I get my info from uefa.com as well, since we can run MSQueries on those tables. Some months ago uefa.com had forgot a Crvena Zvezda-match, so their tables were wrong for some weeks.

That's why it is so nice and useful to have contributors (like you) pointing at errors. Just a waste of time to go through all the tables on my/our own for every update, checking if uefa.com have done wrong anywhere.

Just now it has no impact for the seeding of Serbian champs or other teams in CLQ2-3, but it may, if Partizan can fix a couple of points (two is three-bonus) in Moscow next week. Then Partizan will pass Wisla on ranking with the consequences that may have.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: duncshine Date: 11-03-2005, 16:06	Thanks Triki, Yes, as Anita says, we use UEFA automatcally. Input from people who know the local situation is really helpful! Thanks again Dunc.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: crypton Date: 11-03-2005, 18:27	@duncshine Why have you listed Sturm Graz as austrian cup winner in your prediction? Sturm is now a very weak team that fights for staying in the league.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 11-03-2005, 19:16	I can answer for dunc. Because Sturm Graz have the highest UEFA-coeff of the teams left in the Austrian cup. Check his side "Domestic cups".

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 12-03-2005, 13:23	Update after midweek matches (a day later than usual, because I only came back from Donetsk late in the afternoon yesterday): http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net/. Changes compared to Monday: Basel now seeded in CL Q3 Bremen up to Pot C in CL R1 Sampdoria now seeded in UEFA R1 PAOK down to Pot C in UEFA R2 Udinese up to Pot C Espanyol down to Pot D Austria up to Pot D

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 13-03-2005, 12:50	Another hope for the teams around the line between seeded and unseeded teams in CL Q3 beside the "usual suspects" (Espanyol, Everton, Sampdoria etc.): Hamburger SV (currently 24.072). They are on a surprisingly good run and since yesterday only one point behind current 3rd (Werder). I really can imagine now that HSV gains the 3rd German CL spot.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 13-03-2005, 17:03	After today's match, Rangers are qualified for UC! I thought that it is interesting enough to post. And visit my site: www.geocities.com/yufudbal/ for list of all clubs that can qualify for UC or CL (some 15 minor countries are exluded, because it is so hard to find results). Last update was after yesterday's matches.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 13-03-2005, 21:29

Forza, where you one of the 43(?) fans that made the trip to the cold Donetsk? Sponsored by Scheringa? Great deal by a sponsor. It is a long trip, costing 3 days ? And what a result!! This should be enough. I mean, they might be a bit better away, but the danger of AZ's attack stays. Olympiakos can, with 11 men, win in Newcastle, with a bit of luck even 2-0, though they have problems with English teams(Liverpool!),but I don't see Shaktar do the same to AZ.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 13-03-2005, 21:48	Yes, I was one of the around 42 AZ-fans in Donetsk. By the way, it wasn't that cold during the match. It certainly was a very nice experience this 3 day trip to the Ukraine, with the match-result being fantastic off course (and not expected by any of the fans).

Author: Munja
Date: 14-03-2005, 00:48

I did some changes to my list today, and when I saved it, I saw that it's size is almost 2mb. So, to solve that problem, I had to zip all statistics (zip file has 55 kb!).

I have fresh informations, and I added Czech, Croatian, and Bulgarian league and midweek fixtures. Offcourse, everything else is still there.

If that sounds interesting to you, visit www.geocities.com/yufudbal/
, download zip file (55 kb), unzip it, and browse through statistics offline. Site has the same look as it had online.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 14-03-2005, 01:43	Wisla is now seeded in CLQ3. Not for long though. If Slavia Praha take point against Mlada Boleslav tonight (14.03), they will pass Teplice on league table and send Wisla down to unseeded group again. Go, Mlada!

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 14-03-2005, 11:54	Update after the weekend: http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net/ Changes compared to Saturday Galatasaray down to Pot C in CL R1 Liberec now outside Intertoto top 3 Palermo now seeded in UEFA R1 Besiktas down to Pot C in UEFA R2 Espanyol up to Pot C CSKA Moscow up to Pot D

Author: anita
Date: 14-03-2005, 14:54

Forza, you have Betis ahead of Espanyol, so Wisla is not seeded in CLQ3 on your site. They have same points, but Betis have better goal average.

Maybe uefa.com have done a mistake (again), but in Spain they rank the teams after head-to-head, not goal average (at least that is the info I have got), and then Espanyol is ahead with 2-2 at home and win 4-1 away to Betis.

But I don't know if that head-to-head rule is just for 1st place or for all places in league?

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 14-03-2005, 15:02	I have Espanyol over Betis- straight from uefa.com. So this is not Uefa's error, I think. Don't you, Anita, have queries from uefa.com too??

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 14-03-2005, 15:07 Edited by: anita at: 14-03-2005, 15:12	Ricardo, yes, I have, so I have Espanyol ahead of Betis, but uefa.com have done mistakes before, so I was just wondering if h2h is valid or if uefa.com have done another mistake? On other tables, soccerbot, NOR newspapers, Betis is ahead of Espanyol. At least none of the teams will overcome Rosenborgs ranking

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: maciosgh Date: 14-03-2005, 15:22	To Anita: Waiting for Deportivo to do it

Author: anita
Date: 14-03-2005, 15:50
Edited by: anita
at: 14-03-2005, 15:50

maciosgh, you should really put your hopes on Espanyol for Wislas sake. Teams ahead of Rosenborg on ranking is also Valencia, Villareal, Deportivo, Zaragoza.

Interesting point here (for me, at least): Sevilla is 0.587 points behind Rosenborg, and need one point more (vs Parma), or Spain must have 16 more points (hardly, but far from impossible) to get Sevilla ahead of Rosenborg. I doubt that teams with lower ranking than Rosenborg will be seeded in CLQ3.

If Sevilla qualify for UEFA-cup, they may like to have a couple of points more to get seeded in Pot B in UC group stage. But I presume that (pot B,C,A) is not a hot discussion topic in Sevilla...

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: TimJohnson Date: 14-03-2005, 16:11	On the website for the Spanish Newspaper ABC www.abc.es in their classification they have Betis 4 and Espanyol 5

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ursus Date: 14-03-2005, 18:21 Edited by: Ursus at: 14-03-2005, 18:22	Anita: "Actually you should support Benfica, hoping they will take third place (exactly)." I think you misunderstood me: I ment that I shouldn't support Benfica in their battle against Sporting to gain the 2nd place in Portugal. ;-) Right now Braga is on the 3rd spot, but I'm pretty sure that they won't keep it for long.

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 14-03-2005, 19:43

Sometimes uefa.com has mistakes, and therefor I sort the tables I get into my sheet. And I use the same conditions for each league (goal-difference). It's to difficult to look at the different conditions for each country every time.

So that's why I have Betis in a CLQ-spot now. When a league is finished and teams are still equal I fix them in their right position (as for the Russian table; Krylya before Zenit, while Zenit has better goaldifference).

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: isidromv Date: 16-03-2005, 09:39	In Spain head-to-head is used, but this is only applied after last match. Already there are no rule to solve draws during competition, and sometimes it depends on the source. In MARCA Espanyol is ahead of Betis.

Author: anita
Date: 16-03-2005, 12:52

Thx, isidromv for valuable info. As Forza writes, it would be too much useless work to check out all leagues and rules for preliminary placing according to all the different rules, as long as the leagues change every round. It is nevertheless a confirmed fact now (Marca, which is normally the most updated football magazine in Spain, afaik) that Espanyol is ahead of Betis when they have same points, since they have played both matches against each other.

isidromv, do you know if it is the same rule in Spain if there are three+ teams on same points? In Italy there are play-off two matches if two teams have the same points, but only if it have any impact, i.e. CL/UEFA-cup spots or relegation. But I am not sure if this is valid if there are three teams. Same with Bulgaria, where they (again afaik) just have h2h-rules on first place if there are two teams on same points. Or?

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 16-03-2005, 13:31	I skiped update yesterday, but now my site is again up-to-date. You can see all my statistics in zip file that you can download from my site, but if you don't want to download zip file, you can still check list of possible qualificants, without some extra data. I was forced to zip statistics because geocities has very limited trafic. www.geocities.com/yufudbal/

Author: maciosgh
Date: 16-03-2005, 14:55
Edited by: maciosgh
at: 16-03-2005, 16:50

Who knows if we won't have another Wisla 2003/2004 situation for Rosenborg...

What if there will be a Liverpool - X final and Rosenborg will be 16th (last seeded) in CLQ3 with Everton staying on 4th. Seems to me Anita such a situation is not impossible and you'll know what it's like to be with all your heart for one team and waiting for the second to win to have your team seeded for the CLQ3 (unless you're a REDS supporter of course).

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's possible isn't it??

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Indalo_FCB Date: 16-03-2005, 16:28 Edited by: Indalo_FCB at: 16-03-2005, 16:28	@ Forza-AZ, On your site, one of the things you assume is that the team with the highest coëfficiënt will win the UEFA Cup. You say that this is AC Parma. But in reality this should be Newcastle United. Or am I seeing something wrong? Thanks for all the work that you and others put in their websites to clear everything up for us Greetings, Indalo

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: isidromv Date: 16-03-2005, 17:07 Edited by: isidromv at: 16-03-2005, 17:08	Anita. Some time ago there were a topic about the tie break rules. Head-to-head is applied in Spain, no matter the number of teams involved.

Author: Munja
Date: 17-03-2005, 13:01

Yesterday was the bussiest day on my site since I put it online. 48 visitors! I can only say, keep visiting my site and I will keep updating it.

After yesterdays matches, FC Brussels lost its chances to qualify and 17 teams are out of cup. Also, some clubs changed their coefficients after UC matches. You can see it all here: www.geocities.com/yufudbal/

What do you think about zipping my statistics? Do you approve it or not?

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 17-03-2005, 13:52	@ Indalo_FCB I use the coefficient which were used for seeding in this season (so 1999-2004). Parma has 66.531 and Newcastle 61.510. For the current coefficient (2000-2005) indeed Newcastle has the better one (73.156 versus 64.390).

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Indalo_FCB Date: 17-03-2005, 13:55	@ Forza-AZ: Thanks for the explanation and congratulations that your favourite team could do what mine didn't: beating Shakhtar Donetsk

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 17-03-2005, 14:48	maciosgh, sorry, I didn't catch your point. You mean if Liverpool wins CL and is not qualified for CL yet? In this case, Liverpool takes the holder spot in CL GS, Everton moves to UC and Arsenal stays among the seeded teams in CL Q3. So, no harm for Rosenborg.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 17-03-2005, 14:56	The difference will be that in stead of Everton in Q3 there will be Fenerbahce. Everton has quotient 20.156 and Fenerbahce 23.872, so both will be unseeded. I have to admit I don't get the point either, unless you expect Everton to be a stronger possible opponent, cause as being seeded you can get either of them.

Author: anita
Date: 17-03-2005, 14:57

If CL-titleholder do not qualify for CL or CLQ3, and do not come from countries with four CL-participants (Italy, England or Spain), the Polish champs will have to start in CLQ2 instead of CLQ3. So three teams may stop Wisla from starting in CLQ3, BayernM, PSV and Lyon. Looking at their league position at the moment (BayernM six points down to 'not qualified for CL(Q3)', PSV eight and Lyon twelve), I think we can congratulate Wisla(?) into CLQ3. Good for them, they could have met a Georgian team in CLQ2

JUST SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT (ESPECIALLY) VALERENGEN'S SEEDING IN CLQ2:

Dinamo Zagreb just made the 'cut' for the Croatian championship group last weekend (six best teams). May have some impact for seeding in CLQ2 if Dinamo win Croatian league. If Wisla start in CLQ3, Valerengen is just now 12th seeded (of 14 seeded teams), but may be passed by winners in Croatia (only DZagreb, Ossijek is out) and Austria (Rapid, Austria and GAK. Sturm Graz and Wacker do also have better coeff than Valerengen, but is too far behind in league).

These conditions PLUS if runner-up in Switzerland are Basel, Grasshoppers, Servette or St.Gallen, Valerengen will be unseeded in CLQ2.

But of course things may happen in front of Valerengen too. E.g if Rapid Bucuresti win Romanian league, they have lower coeff than Valerengen and will (probably) be unseeded in CLQ2. And Valerengen is then of course guaranteed seeding, whatever may happen in other leagues.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 17-03-2005, 15:01 Edited by: anita at: 17-03-2005, 15:03	Ricardo and ralfinho, what if Gala win Turkish league? Or did I use so much brain capacity on my former reply that I mess it all up?

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 17-03-2005, 16:16 Edited by: ralfinho at: 17-03-2005, 16:20	anita, Well, if the holder spot is not used (what I hope as you know ), Gala will be in GS. The 2nd (in this case highly likely to be Fener or Trabzon) will be in Q3. Both below Rosenborg. If the holder spot is used, Gala will be in Q3 iso Fener now. So, no change compared to now where Gala is in Q3 as Turkish 2nd. Don't worry, everything will be good.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ATHAKE Date: 17-03-2005, 16:32	Gala fans like Liverpool by decades,red fellows . In Turkish League the dark team Fenerbahtze managed by mafia leader, as u know the transfers,Anelka,Alex, but u dont know the source of money. The Turkish league is controlled by Fenerbahtze now, i think they'll be the champion. So as a Gala fan, do not wanna a champ option this year like last year, so wish liverpool win CL... Go red go...

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 17-03-2005, 17:11	I have added 2 columns(per round) to my CL prediction-sheet. These numbers are the numbers the coefficinet can go up or down compared to the coefficient that is currently used. You can see that in Q3 Everton and Sampdoria have the coutry-coefficient and only can go up. In contrary Maccabi Haifa and Ferencvaros only can go down. See http://www.geocities.com/ricardo3941/ECL405/cl0506.htm

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: maciosgh Date: 17-03-2005, 19:02	My baaaaad - I don't get my point too A bad, bad mistake - It wasn't Fenerbahce that I expected to go back to CLQ3 but Sparta Prague. Sorry once again.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 18-03-2005, 00:31 Edited by: anita at: 18-03-2005, 17:23	Just a totally irrelevant observation. For the first time since 1991/92, eight different countries in UEFA cup QuarterFinal. (In those times UEFA had the cup winners cup as well). Editing and correcting: Genoa and Torino were in QF in 1991/92, so as mentioned on other topic by Forza, last time was 85/86.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Lunaris Date: 18-03-2005, 00:52	ralfinho, afaik the second in turkish league starts in q2, not in q3

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 18-03-2005, 01:05	anita, yes, and another totally irrelevant observation: If Villareal will be beaten by Steaua, then no Spanish side in all QF's. First time since 1971/72! (I just crawled through Bert's database to find this.) Lunaris, you're right, but I assumed that Turkish 2nd will make it to Q3.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 18-03-2005, 10:38 Edited by: Munja at: 18-03-2005, 10:40	I updated my site. I added starting time (CET) for all league fixtures (top 22 leagues, excluding Poland, Israel and winter leagues). Yesterday was another bussy day on my site. 51 visitors! I want to thank you. www.geocities.com/yufudbal/ Duncan, what happened with your site?

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 18-03-2005, 11:06	Update after midweek matches: http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net/. Changes compared to Monday: Basel now not seeded in CL Q3 Lille up to Pot C in CL R1 Dynamo Kyiv down to Pot D Sevilla now inside Intertoto top 3 Steaua now seeded in UEFA R1 Genk now not seeded Monaco up to Pot A in UEFA R2 Besiktas up to Pot B AZ Alkmaar up to Pot C Maccabi Haifa up to Pot D

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: macaskil Date: 18-03-2005, 15:46	Looking bad for Switzerland Xamax - unseeded in ECL QR2 Basel - unseeded in ECL QR3 Thun - unseeded in UC QR2 Young Boys - unseeded in UC QR2 Could end up with a coefficent of 1.000 or less!

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Lunaris Date: 18-03-2005, 15:50	or the could make the big surprise, kicking celtic, arsenal and inter out of cl-quali and other big teams out of uefa-cup :-)

Author: anita
Date: 18-03-2005, 17:17
Edited by: anita
at: 18-03-2005, 17:45

If you compare with countries around Switzerlands ranking, they are not in THAT bad shape. The main problem is the unseeding in CLQR2. The difference between seeded and unseeded teams in CLQR2 is BIG.

And if eliminated in CLQ2, no CLQ3 and no UEFA round 1. But there's 14 matches left in Switzerland, and if Grasshoppers take second place, they will be seeded in CLQR2 and may move Valerengen (Norway) down to unseeded. Then Norway may be in trouble...

And remember that this season 25% of the unseeded teams in UEFA-cup round 1 advanced to group stage.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 20-03-2005, 15:12	A help for those hoping for being seeded in Q3: Ajax just lost from PSV (0-4), making it very hard for Ajax to get to CL-Q3. They are now 7 points behind AZ. AZ still also can be a problem, but they have to reach the UC-final for that.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 20-03-2005, 15:31	Well, new update on my site, but you could guess that. www.geocities.com/yufudbal/ Question of importance is this: am I right to say that Celtic and Rangers yesterday qualified for CL and Makabi Haifa for UC?

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 20-03-2005, 17:37	For Celtic/Rangers yes. I don't know for Haifa.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 20-03-2005, 19:52 Edited by: Ricardo at: 20-03-2005, 20:39	Yes, 7 matches to go and 23 ponts ahead of nr 4 means qualified. I have them qualified (see my site)(here ): it shows a Q in the UCQ2-column on the Domestic League overview page By the way also Juve, PSV and Anorthosis are qualified

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 20-03-2005, 20:58	Wait. Juve can stil be seventh in league and, say, Cagliary win cup. Wouldn't they be out?

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: mark Date: 20-03-2005, 23:11	Munja: yes haifa had qualified.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 21-03-2005, 00:10	And after last match in Italy, Juve and Milan qualified.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 21-03-2005, 00:31	And I updated my site. I added all cup fixtures I could find on internet (top 7 leagues 1/2, switzerland and turkey 1/2, czech and russia 1/4, israel 1/8...). I also added fixture list for midweek (thou I'm not that it is complete). And I added cyprus, poland and slovenia tables. www.geocities.com/yufudbal/

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 21-03-2005, 12:22 Edited by: Forza-AZ at: 21-03-2005, 12:25	Update after the weekend: http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net/ Changes compared to Friday: Basel now seeded in CL Q3 Sochaux now inside Intertoto top 3 Metalurh now unseeded in UEFA Q2 Ajax and Sporting up to Pot A in UEFA R2 Sevilla up to Pot B Crvena Zvezda up to Pot D

Author: Agent327
Date: 21-03-2005, 14:07

Maybe a bit early, but hey, I like the discussion.

Champions League:
Since the season 2000/2001 only 1 team outside the big 5 has ever made it to pot A in the CL.
This is off course Porto (last season as TH)
The big 3 (Spain, England & Italy) captured the most places in pot A since then (resp. 14, 10 & 9 times)
Germany (5) and France (1) are way behind.

So for the time being all the clubs from outside the big 5 have to focus on getting in pot B to have a (second) seeded place in the CLGS.
This is hard to do but not impossible.
How? Well most profitable is getting 3rd in CLGS (points + money) and after that surviving a couple of UC rounds (points)

For next season the following clubs have an advantage to get in pot B, provided they qualify for the CL (group stage)
Porto, PSV, Panathinaikos, Celtic.
Porto will probably enter pot A.

For PSV & Panathinaikos it will be the 3rd time they enter pot B,
for Celtic however, it's the first time they get this high.

Other teams with their nose against the window are Galatasaray
(last year's failure to qualify for Europe cost them dearly)
Club Brugge (just behind Galatasaray) and little bit further up the road Anderlecht & Olympiacos.
And don't count Sporting Lisbon out. I think they will do a 'Feyenoord' this year, and their still in grasp of a CL-spot in Portugal.

All in all 13 times a club outside the top 5 have managed grab a pot B spot.
Porto (2 times in pot B, 1 in pot A) has never failed in CLGS.
Galatasaray (4 times in pot B) and Spartak Moscow (2) have a 50% record on going through.
PSV, Panathinaikos (2) and Feyenoord (1) never took advantage of their pot B spot.

UEFA Cup:
Of all teams in the UC the match between Villareal & AZ is the most interesting if you look at their coefficients points.

The unbelievable success of AZ (ned) earned them a lot of points. At current standings they're just falling outside the seeded places in CLQ3.
For teams like Wisla, Basel & Rosenborg it's best if AZ will fail to get more than 1 point in the UC quarter final.

Villareal is still in contention on multiple fronts.
First and main objective for them (IMHO) is maintaining/getting a CL(Q3) spot.
If they succeed (and win in the CLQ3), there's a chance they could be seeded in pot B, although they never participated in the CL.

Theoretically they can knock Celtic out pot B (getting at least 6 points in the UC QF, SF & F and provided some higher placed teams will gain a CL-spot in their own league)
It's best for Celtic if they get knocked out by AZ in UC.

So, we'll see

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: macaskil Date: 21-03-2005, 19:01	Liverpool are now just 4 points behind Everton - but with now only 8 games left are still unlikely to get into 4th place.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: ralfinho Date: 22-03-2005, 01:10	macaskil, we will talk about at the end of the season.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: duncshine Date: 23-03-2005, 12:12	Right, my site is up-to-date again... Have a look. I've changed the league table calculation so that it shows when teams are guaranteed a place in one of the Euro Comps (See Chelsea, Celtic, Rangers, Anorthosis, PSV, M. Haifa). I've also reflected the Croatian Split. Cup Updates are still there. Enjoy Dunc.

Author: anita
Date: 23-03-2005, 12:36
Edited by: anita
at: 23-03-2005, 12:40

As far as I can see, Dinamo Zagreb missed out the cut in Croatian league? If this is correct, Valerengen (Norway) is guaranteed seeding in CLQ2, since both Croatian teams with better coeff than Valerengen (DZagreb and Ossijek) is out of contention. Highest coeff for Croatian team is now 10.979 Can anyone confirm that Valerengens seeding is safe if Wisla (Polish champs) start in CLQ3?

Look at my reply on 17.03.05,14:57.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: duncshine Date: 23-03-2005, 13:09	Not sure Anita. How about if holder spot is used? Rapid Wien win in Austria? St Gallen or Grasshoppers finish runners up in Switzerland? Doesn't that push Vålerenga down into non-seeded status? Jus a thought... D.

Author: anita
Date: 23-03-2005, 13:30
Edited by: anita
at: 23-03-2005, 13:31

As I wrote: If Wisla start in CLQ3...

If holder spot is used, the 3G will only remove the fourth team in their league to UEFA-cup, and Wisla will start in CLQ3. So the only options for holder spot to be used, is if PSV ends up in third place in league, and BayernM or Lyon ends up in fourth place in league. Or?

A completely other thing is that Italy will probably get (at least) one unseeded team in CLQ3. Roma (and Lazio and Parma) are losing ground now.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Lunaris Date: 23-03-2005, 13:37 Edited by: Lunaris at: 23-03-2005, 13:54	dunc as seen on uefa.com estonia already started it's new season russia too

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: TimJohnson Date: 23-03-2005, 21:58	Anita Dinamo Zagreb finished outside the top 6 according to their own website and that of UEFA.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: duncshine Date: 24-03-2005, 12:11	Thanks Lunaris, yes I know some of the Summer leagues have started, but my sheets are all about Qualification for 2005/6 competition, so I am not featuring the 2005 Summer Leagues yet. Once 2005/6 Qualification is sorted, I shall do sheet for next year. Cheers Dunc

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 25-03-2005, 11:01	Update after midweek matches: http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net/. Changes compared to Monday: Juventus up to Pot A in CL R1 Monaco up to Pot B

Author: Ricardo
Date: 25-03-2005, 12:00

With not so much matches, you could get bored, so I went to all cupinfo i had on my site to include latest results and draws. I also added Andorrian and San Marino league. Especially the last one is a bit of a problem. There are 2 league-groups. On socerway.com they have just made this into 1 big league. On uefa.com they stopped with grouop B after match 14, so no up to date info.
I had to go to the San-Marino FA-site to get latest league-standings. And to get the play-off method they are using. I found a schema, but not completely clear:
It start with 2 matches between I think nrs 2 and 3 of the 2 groups. Winners of these 2 play against another 2, probably group-winners.
Every time the losers of the match play against the loser of the previous play-off round. quite an ingenious system, I would say.
But how the initial mathces are scheduled I don't know, while some teams have already qualified: is it [A2-B3>-B1 and [A3-B2>-A1, or ??
Does anybody know more about that?

And Dunc: get your Cupinfo updated, check my site!

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: duncshine Date: 25-03-2005, 13:28	Great minds think alike Ricardo!! I've just updated the cups too... Cheers Dunc

Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 25-03-2005, 14:47
Edited by: Forza-AZ
at: 25-03-2005, 14:48

About San Marino, I have the wrong team on my site, because I didn't notice uefa.com had stopped group B at 14 matches. On www.rsssf.com you can also find the right leaguetable (updates until 23 March now). Libertas should be on my page now, and not Tre Penne.

This is how the play-off's work (at least last seasons, but I don't think that will change):

1st round

1.nr.2 group A-nr.3 group B
2.nr.2 group B-nr.3 group A

2nd round

3.nr.1 group A-winner 2
4.nr.1 group B-winner 1

3rd round

5.loser 1-loser 3
6.loser 2-loser 4

4th round

7.winner 3-winner 4
8.winner 5-winner 6

semifinal

9.loser 7-winner 8

final

10.winner 7-winner 9

Author: Ricardo
Date: 25-03-2005, 15:14

Forza, that seems to be like I expected it after seeing the diagram on http://www.fsgc.sm/
But it doesn't matter if you put Tre Penne or Libertas on your list, as one is leader of group A and the other one is leader of group B.
I don't know when playoffs will start, on the calandario it just say 2-3 April is the next round, and there should follow another couple. Also I have Murata havig played 18 out of 18, but they play again on 3rd of April. So maybe it is 24 matches and not 18?? (for group A then. And what with group B then...)
I think I'll just follow what is on the abovementioned site, and not predict what happens in teh future.)

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 25-03-2005, 17:21	I just put the team in my list that has the most points, so at the moment Libertas. And the regular league consists of 20 or 21 matches. Every team plays the teams from the same group twice and the teams from the other group once.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: oribd Date: 26-03-2005, 00:54	I must be missing something, or how come Juventus moved from pot B to A if there's a one year delay in calculating coefficients?

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 26-03-2005, 10:42	The number of spots-awarding has a 'delay' of 1 year. The team ranking used for seeding has not. So this years matches in the UC/CL change the seedinglist for next year(05/06)

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: oribd Date: 26-03-2005, 21:34	Oh, thanks, Ricardo.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: anita Date: 27-03-2005, 14:28	No impact on distribution of teams in European cup next year, but I observe that several league sites (Soccerway, uefa.com) have not yet updated that Anderlecht won the appeal on the match against La Louviere, so with a 2-1 win, Anderlecht have now 58 points on 26 matches.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 28-03-2005, 16:58	Small detail: Anderlecht didn't win the appeal, but La Louviere decided to drop the appeal, so no desicion had to be made any more by the Belgian FA.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 29-03-2005, 14:59	Update after the weekend: http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net/. Metalurh now seeded in UEFA Q2 PS: Does anybody know which teams play each other in the semifinals of the Albanian, Bosnian and Bulgarian Cups??

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Ricardo Date: 29-03-2005, 15:35	Good question! It was not even on CSKA' Sofia's own site, though they have to play on the 13th of April!

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: flob Date: 29-03-2005, 18:51	For the Bosnian Cup I found this site.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 29-03-2005, 20:02	Thanks for that link. That changes the 2nd Bosnian team in UEFA-cup from Siroki to Slavija (as I now assume a Cup final between Zrinjski and Slavija, and Zrinjski is on a CL-spot). Both have the same coefficient, so no changes in the seedings. I'll change this in my next update on Friday.

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 01-04-2005, 11:54	Update after midweek matches: http://europacup-seedings.cjb.net. No seeding changes compared to Tuesday

Re: Seedings in next seasons CL(Q) and UC
Author: Munja Date: 02-04-2005, 11:51	I was not updating site last week or so, because there was not many games. Next update will be when I get back from school on Monday (about 14:00).