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Author: Lunaris
Date: 04-01-2005, 15:45

http://www.iffhs.de/

that's the link, where you can find another ranking system to find out who's the best in the world

points
1. España 1.189,0
2. England 1.184,0
3. Italia 1.010,0
Brasil 1.010,0
5. France 999,0
6. Deutschland 899,0
7. Argentina 850,0
8. Portugal 742,5
9. Nederland 693,0
10. Perú 682,5
11. Colombia 659,5
12. Türkiye 637,0
13. Scotland 633,5
14. Belgique 605,5
15. Greece 594,5
16. Ceská Republika 549,5
17. México 547,5
18. Ukraina 541,0
19. Russia 536,0
20. Chile 528,0
21. Uruguay 488,0
22. Österreich 466,5
23. Paraguay 457,5
24. Ecuador 452,0
25. South Africa 413,5

that's the top 25

regards
Lunaris

Author: vakho
Date: 04-01-2005, 16:47

Europe - South American comparisant is senceless since club teams play only friendly-like Intercontinental cup. Very hard buffer to decide ranking of all leagues.
National level is hardly appliable to this.
Rather South Africa ahead of Denmark is a bit overkill ...
So to put it in Euro representation compared to UEFA:
1. Espana 1.189,0 (1)
2. England 1.184,0 (2)
3. Italia 1.010,0 (3)
4. France 999,0 (5)
5. Deutschland 899,0 (4)
6. Portugal 742,5 (6)
7. Nederland 693,0 (7)
8. Turkiye 637,0 (11)
9. Scotland 633,5 (10)
10. Belgique 605,5 (9)
11. Greece 594,5 (8)
12. Ceska Republika 549,5 (12)
13. Ukraina 541,0 (13)
14. Russia 536,0 (16)
15. Österreich 466,5 (14)

Major impact that someone decided to interchange
Greece with Turkey - even here Greece is underestimated!

+ no confidence in Israeli result (15th currently).

Re: best leagues in the world
Author: Lunaris Date: 04-01-2005, 17:58	well i didn't say it's easy to compare european clubs with other continents, but well looking at the way this ranking is made it seems quite appropriate for your denmark-south africa issue, well to decide this, maybe we should wait for the club-world championship at the end of the year to find out how strong african clubs really are

Re: best leagues in the world
Author: vakho Date: 04-01-2005, 18:11	Probably would be fair to model this on Beveren and french team level

Re: best leagues in the world
Author: Edgar Date: 04-01-2005, 21:23	This ranking is made with the results from the year 2004 (i.e. one year, not five like in the UEFA rankings). Look here and here. You'll see similar results. Greece is not underestimated and it's not about having no confidence in Israel's position. Greece had a lousy 2004 (club level). Israel still benefits from that wonder season - 01/02.

Re: best leagues in the world
Author: jay Date: 06-01-2005, 19:59	europe + south america are streets ahead of the other continents mmmm... (1)spain (2)england (3)italy (4)germany (5)argentina (6)greece (7)france (8)check republic

Re: best leagues in the world
Author: SHEV Date: 06-01-2005, 22:07	France below Greece? Netherlands below Czech Republic nd Greece?

Re: best leagues in the world
Author: Richie Date: 07-01-2005, 00:17	The Mexican league is severely underrated, and is one of the most competetive leagues in the world, expect a mexican libertadores winner very soon (Cruz Azul got to the final, fixture conjestion etc)

Re: best leagues in the world
Author: vakho Date: 08-01-2005, 01:24	Jay please inform me how you detect Argentina being between Germany and Greece , based on what ? To compare clubs from Europe and from other world has the same sence as comparing Italian league in 60's with English in 70's ...

Re: best leagues in the world
Author: vakho Date: 08-01-2005, 01:28	lunaris , I think all trials of FIFA to make 'inter-world' cup will fail. I don't think European clubs will take it serious. Moreover. I don't think number of games to be played would give at least some, very approximate buffer to base comparative analyses.

Author: anita
Date: 08-01-2005, 07:19

vakho, as you argued in your first reply, those comparisons are incomparable, incommensurable, incompatible, and there is no point in calculating anything.

On this Forum we have tried to predict coefficients based on rankings, seedings, coefficients and trying to balance their position in their domestic league (present form) compared to whatever points they may gain in EC.

It shows out that the more teams from one country involved, the easier (of course). Seven or eight teams may be estimated with a deviation of 10%, six teams with a deviation of 20-30%, and nations with four teams can deviate up to 100%. And more.

So why someone have interest of comparing clubs/leagues that never meet in any competition, is above my head. And there is no context.

Portugal is the sixth best nation in Europe according to the way UEFA is calculating coefficients. Porto have taken app. 50% of those points.

You may have one outstanding club in Mexico that may win a South-American competition. So what?

Scotland is probably the best example in Europe. A whatever team except Celtic/Rangers will normally lose to the better Scandinavian teams, but Scotland is way ahead of the Scandinavian countries on the UEFA-ranking.

Depends on how you measure it. In the most ridiculous ranking I have seen when it comes to trying to measure different teams, a nerd association called IFFHS have got attention in newspapers/football magazines. It's elegant. They have a coeff of (I think) two for Scottish league points and one for Scandinavian leagues (and a lot of other leagues), which give Celtic a 9th place and Rangers a 12-13th place on the ranking of European clubs. (last year)

Hardly real life. The reason why Bert have introduced this chat site, and the reason why so many are attending, is that UEFA actually is up to something. UEFA have managed to reflect/measure the strength of each team/country quite fair.

Author: vakho
Date: 08-01-2005, 19:03

Anita nice to see you up so early at Saturday morning,
I remind that a decade ago there was a guy who actually made sofware that gave possibility to simulate all-time world cup with all the players from all years. He actually based his SW not only on statistics but also on physical aspects like number of tricks used, running speed etc.
I liked his theory because he really presented facts he based the game upon. Calculating your future coefficients you base assumption on "lot of stuff".
Since statistics from previous years are enough to give "qualified guess".I saw people guessing 85% of placing in the coefficient table. This is good.
I just argued that mentioned above calculations based on some kind of lousy heuristics, but of course some may like it , just matter of opinion.

World is progressing so I beleive in 60-100 years from now there will be a good "global" cup that will reveal best team in the world. I think very soon the idea of national teams will disappear in some manner since many countries (sadly mostly europeans) nowdays trying to involve players from other lands granting them citizenship. I think club approach going to survive and become even more developed.

I am into science fiction and of course my idea is use time machine for bringing for example Nethelands'88 team to play with Brazil'58 - Interesting , isn't it ?

Re: best leagues in the world
Author: Lunaris Date: 10-01-2005, 15:19	vakho, why should inter-continental cup fail just because european clubs don't take it serious, they will just have to blame themselves when all the other continents are claiming their continent plays the best football

Re: best leagues in the world
Author: Richie Date: 23-01-2005, 06:25	They will take it seriously eventually, suddebly theres payers choosing Corinthians over european clubs Its gonna happen and the Libertadores is getting better every year