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Intertoto next years...?
Author: alono Date: 27-12-2004, 10:21	According to newspaper today in Israel, Intertoto tournament is going to change from 5 rounds to 3 only, and instead of 3 teams moving up to UC => 11 teams !! It is not clear whether this will start from summer 2005 or later.

Re: Intertoto next years...?
Author: Lunaris Date: 27-12-2004, 12:18	never heard of this, but i can say that 11 teams from intertoto is a bit too heavy, i think they will rather decrease it than increase

Re: Intertoto next years...?
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 27-12-2004, 12:24	But probably these 11 teams will have to start in the 1st qualifying round then? So that in fact the number of teams stays the same that can enter in each round.

Author: higgins147
Date: 27-12-2004, 14:43

At the moment the teams that win the Intertoto are far too good for the 1st QR of the UEFA Cup..

My team Shelbourne played against Lille last year in the UEFA Cup and were well beaten by them. They had come through the Intertoto cup where Shelbourne were 0-0 with Deportivo for about 130 minutes of the 3rdQR..

If 11 teams enter at the UEFA 1st QR then you are going to get the likes of Lille playing teams from very weak countries who have only finished 2nd or 3rd in the league or went on a good cup run.

It will be a total mismatch! You will get crazy scores if Lille (or others) come up against part time unfit players...

I would like to know how they could work this as the current 3 Intertoto winners are usually well able for the 1st round proper as it stands.

Author: anita
Date: 27-12-2004, 15:09

Indeed, higgins147! Some problem with the time schedule as well if those teams should start in UCQR1. Well, that may be solved, but letting 11 teams into the backdoor is just mockery to the (sub-)mediocre teams that have worked the whole season managing to qualify through their league. Like Shelbourne.

BUT, I may welcome more IT-teams in UC (I think..). Maybe 5-6. Would increase the excitement and interest for Intertoto-cup, and give room for some teams from "non-G5"-countries.

Author: higgins147
Date: 27-12-2004, 15:34

I was thinking of how they could work it..

At the moment they have 3 finals with 3 winners going through to 1st Round. Maybe the 3 losers could go into the 2ndQR and the 6 losing semi finalists into the 1st QR?..

Again it seems unfair as even the semi finalists but to countries getting more then 1 entry will tend to be very strong in the respective rounds..

I dont have much problem with the backdoor system really and I think Lille deserved the place in the UEFA Group stages but as you said it takes a whole season for the likes of Shelbourne to win a league (on the last day this year!) then you go further then ever in the Champions League, we had never progressed past the 2nd QR. Then your reward is to come up against a very strong Intertoto winner. Thats life but...

It would be very hard to take for a team to come second in their league and draw a team like lille in the UEFA QR's. What would be the point of even turning up for some of the teams.

Author: anita
Date: 27-12-2004, 16:00

Another thing; I don't have any problem with the backdoor as long as it is not easier to get in there than the front entrance, but with 11 teams it may actually be easier to qualify from Intertoto than through the league! Ex. Zaragoza struggling a whole season to get 6th place in SPA PL and UEFA-spot. 8th, 9th,10th... team may just eliminate some mediocre Shelbourne and Esbjerg in some summer matches, then they are in as well.

I don't believe that "Israeli" rumour anyway, so I don't know why I am wasting time on it.

Of course it makes me wonder what the suitable and fair amount of teams may qualify from Intertoto....

Author: vakho
Date: 27-12-2004, 16:27

I did some estimates if teams from ItC semifinal
(12 instead of 11 to be consistent) would enter 1st QR of UC, I took initiative from Mr.Johansson and placed IC teams in the regions on "my choice". IC teams mentioned without coefficients

Northern region:

Seeded teams coef.
------------------------ --- -------
Hamburger SV Ger
Schalke 04 Ger
RC Genk Bel
Esbjerg fB Den
Östers IF Swe 5.516
Bohemians Dublin Irl 3.044
Haka Valkeakoski Fin 2.938
FK Ventspils Lat 1.979
Metalurgs Liepaja Lat 1.979
Allianssi Vantaa Fin 1.938
Zalgiris Vilnius Lit 1.374
Ekranas Panevezys Lit 1.374
IA Akranes Isl 1.099

Unseeded teams coef.
------------------------ --- -------
FH Hafnarfjardar Isl 1.099 (lost seeding)
Longford Town Irl 1.044 (lost seeding)
Llansantffraid Wal 0.769
Haverfordwest County Wal 0.769
FC Vaduz Lie 0.660
Levadia Tallinn Est 0.549
Tallina VMK Est 0.549
Glentoran Nir 0.549
Portadown Nir 0.549
Etzella Ettelbrück Lux 0.494
F91 Dudelange Lux 0.494
B36 Torshavn Far 0.274
B68 Toftir Far 0.274

Central-East region:

Seeded teams coef.
------------------------ --- -------
FC Nantes Fra
Lille OSC Fra
Slovan Liberec Cze
Uniao de Leiria Por
Illichivets Mariupol Ukr 7.301
Kispest Honved FC Hun 5.045
Dukla Banska Bystrica Svk 4.234
Nistru Otachi Mol 2.254
FC Tiraspol Mol 2.254

Unseeded teams coef.
------------------------ --- -------
Dinamo Tbilisi Geo 1.649 (lost seeding)
FC Tbilisi Geo 1.649 (lost seeding)
Shakhtior Saligorsk Bls 1.182
BATE Borisov Bls 1.182
Shirak Gyumri Arm 0.934
Banants Yerevan Arm 0.934
Mika Ashtarak Arm 0.934
FK Shamkir Azb 0.384
Garabag Agdam Azb 0.384

Southern-Mediterranean region:

Seeded teams coef.
------------------------ --- -------
Villarreal CF Esp
Atletico Madrid Esp
NK Maribor Slo 7.024
OFK Beograd SeM
Slaven Belupo Koprivnica Cro
Otelul Galati Rom 4.880
Zeljeznicar Sarajevo Bos 3.814
NK Primorje Slo 3.024
Omonia Nicosia Cyp 2.969

Unseeded teams coef.
------------------------ --- -------
Birkirkara Mlt 2.099 (lost seeding)
FK Modrica Bos 1.814 (lost seeding)
Sloga Skopje Mac 1.594
Sileks Kratovo Mac 1.594
Marsaxlokk Mlt 1.099
Dinamo Tirana Alb 0.604
Partizani Tirana Alb 0.604
SS Pennarossa Sma 0.000
Santa Coloma And 0.000

As you see nothing extra ordinary happened , looser Icelandic and Longford lost their seeding in Northern group but I don't think anyone has to complain except probably Vaduz

In CE group Georgian teams lost their seeding, which in some way would make Wisla happier - they could maybe challenge better Uniao or Liberec

In SM group Modrica and Birkirkara would loose their seeding. Birkirkara lost anyway , and Modrica was such a shame this year that they would better preffer to stay away from QR2

Author: higgins147
Date: 27-12-2004, 17:50

Your tables look fine and we know that only one or two of the teams will miss out but its the potential non-events in there that scare me!

You cant have Lille V Garabag Agdam Azb 0.384
Or Atletico Madrid V Santa Coloma And 0.000 ???

There is a reason why the competition is not carried out on a straight knock out basis..

Take my team shelbourne again.. We know we don't have a chance to win the competition but to get past the 2nd QR has been the aim/dream for years and when it happened our fans were as happy as the fans of the team who will go on to win the CL.

The current format gives all teams a realistic chance of achieving some sort of goal.

You have to have rounds where there is a small level of difference between teams. You have shown that the 12 teams in the QR would be a big JOKE

Re: Intertoto next years...?
Author: ignjat63 Date: 27-12-2004, 20:44	alono's news seem to be confirmation of what Dinamo-Zagreb has read in october, I think, in some croatian newspaper. At the time nobody else has heard about it, untill now. So UEFA might be planning something about it. No news articles about it in Serbian papers yet, I believe.

Author: Richie
Date: 27-12-2004, 22:54

I cannot see Graz winning, they were extremely poor in the first leg against liverpool, after which the tie was already over, and they got destroyed by a poor Rangers side.

Never noticed the Middlesbrough slump before (thats when they won the league cup last year), but with the strength of squad they have a 2 goal + victory would seem the most likely outcome, plus Boro are at home in the secind leg

Grazer AK also have many bookies bookies longest odds....

Author: Richie
Date: 27-12-2004, 22:59

Oops wrong topic, oh well

What UEFA need to be doing is to stop the Champions League rejects from devaluing the competition, take them away = 32 more 1st round places, 64 qualifying....

This is the major reason why the UEFA cup is not seen as that prestigious over here in England, they need to get more teams involved and distribute more money, so that missing out on the CL is not so much of a disaster

Author: vakho
Date: 29-12-2004, 10:30

higgins147 , of course you are correct.
Why do you think such rumors emerged ? First of all to make Intertoto cup more attractive to top5 coutry teams so 11 of them actually qualify to UC.
Second even in the case they start from QR1 unfortunately Penarossa and Shelbourne in QR1 and QR2 are not the teams they challenge them. The target is actually against teams from 6-12 placed countries and some good teams from 13-etc in addition CL QR3 loosers. In case this rule would be introduced teams like Beveren , Ferenzvaros, Hearts, Dinamo Tb , Amica
AEK will never appear in UC group stage.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 04-01-2005, 10:42

First of all: best wishes to all of you with lots of spectacular games.

The Dutch FA lanched a few months ago a new setup for the Dutch competition with play-offs at the end of the season. Play offs-for CL, UC and Intertoto. It was mentioned that it was discussed with UEFA and that one of the reasons for this possibility was that the Intertoto places would be made more interesting in the future by the UEFA. It was not said HOW it would be made more interesting. Having 11 teams qualify is indeed more interesting, but if this means 8 (or more) teams from the top 5 countries, I don't like it. (Not even if it would mean 10 from the top 10.) I can't think of another way of how Intertoto would be made more interesting. Maybe later in the season, resulting in a direct qualification for the UC-groupphase?? Not likely.

Author: Dinamo-Zagreb
Date: 04-01-2005, 11:24

Heheh, it was nice to see that Slaven Belupo would be seeded in 1QR UC

OT: Slaven Belupo is best team that competed in Intertoto Cup according to www.rsssfr.com (2 semifinals, 2 3rd rounds).
I am surprised of this news, because I thought that rumours in our newspapers were just rumours. Seems different. UEFA indeed plans something and this is really big.

I really can't see some fair structure for IT Cup but to allow only one team from big five to enter competition and everyone else gets more than 1 (Croatia now has 2 and is in first half of Intertoto countries). If 12 teams (which is more logical than 11) enter, it leaves 7-9 places in Europe for smaller countries (including Portugal, Greece, Netherlands since none of them presents here with strong clubs). Structure? Maybe return to the old group stages (of 5) where winners should advance to UC...

This enables even smaller clubs 4 games in summer, which is good.

Author: putzeijs
Date: 04-01-2005, 13:55

Well, I like the idea of Dinamo Zagrab (1 team for top countries + groups ).

But according to the 05-06 calender Bert put on his site in another topic, the changes we're talking about would be for this summer yet.

UI R3 are shedueled for 23/7. This would made the entrence for 11 teams in UC QR1 inpossible. These games are schedueled for 14/7.

My experience is that Bert's information is more relialable then newspapers.

Re: Intertoto next years...?
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 04-01-2005, 16:43	It's indeed not for next season. But in next seasons Dutch League the changes are made (with play-off's at the end of the season). So probably the changes in Intertoto will be for season 2006/07.