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| Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: ignjat63
Date: 28-09-2004, 10:28 | Hi everybody, For several months I've been enjoying Bert's database and this forum. Recently I've noticed this in his database: In the very first champions cup MTK Budapest was named after its then name, Vörös Lobogó Budapest. However, in 1966 CWC, Sparta Praha was NOT named by its then name Spartak Sokolovo. This little inconsistency has cast a shadow of doubt over my mind, so I need your help on the following: Are ADO Den Hag and Den Hag one and the same club. The same with Motor Zwickau and Sachsenring Zwickau and DWS Amsterdam and FC Amsterdam. I need this information because I started making my own sheets counting coefficients and I would also like to do some all-time statistics. Thank you |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 28-09-2004, 13:57 | ADO Den Haag and (FC) Den Haag are indeed the same club. FC Amsterdam was a merger between DWS and 2 other clubs, so indeed you could say they are the same club. |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 28-09-2004, 14:21 | It's true. There are inconsistencies in my database. First of all I don't use some unique identifier for a club. Instead I use the real name. So, problems when a club changes it's name. Ususally I am very conservative in changing names. Many name changes are just for commercial reasons. If I do change a name, and don't apply the change in the previous years, there is currently no way I can see that it's the same club. Fortunately, the big clubs that are always playing in Europe don't change names very often. If I change the name of a smaller club after a 5-year period of not playing European football, my database sees two different clubs. No problem so far as the rankings are only calculated over 5 years. I know I have to apply some fix. Did not decide yet to use unique identifiers or use a list of aliases. But you can see in the example of Forza-AZ (DWS and FC Amsterdam) how difficult it can be to decide whether it's the same club. To me they are different clubs. I don't think UEFA has any rules for this. According to santiclaus Motor Zwickau and Sachsenring Zwickau are the same clubs. |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 28-09-2004, 14:23 | Currently I am aware of the following aliases in my database:Alb SK Tirana { 1991 = 17 Nëntori Tirana |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: cattle_ripper
Date: 28-09-2004, 15:23 | Bert, I don't think that Arsenal Kiev and CSKA Kiev are the same club. It should have been that way, but for some reasons, now there is Arsenal Kiev in Ukraine's first division and CSKA Kiev in Ukraine's second division. The Ukrianians on the board might clear the situation a bit ... |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 28-09-2004, 17:12 | On www.rsssf.com it is said that at the time CSKA were named Arsenal (winterbreak 2001/02), at that time CSKA-2 were renamed CSKA. So the current CSKA that is playing in division 2 was the 2nd team of CSKA before the namechange. I don't know if the 2 clubs are still tied now? |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: anita
Date: 28-09-2004, 17:30 | As Bert mentions, commercial reasons may change the club name for a short while. uefa.com use e.g. Wacker = FC Tirol Artmedia = Petrzalka |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: TWINE
Date: 28-09-2004, 18:07 | It is interesting story of Arsenal. In Soviet times there was SKA Kiev. Never played in supreme league, but once riched 1/2 USSR Cup. After Ukraine got independence it became CSKA. Then it was cooperated with another club, Borysfen and renamed to CSKA-Borysfen. Most players was from Borysfen. In 1995 they riched Ukrainian supreme league. Two years later CSKA-Borysfen bacame CSKA again and it farm-club CSKA-2 got independence from CSKA and named Borysfen. In 1998 and 2001 CSKA have participated in eurocups. At the very end of 2001 CSKA became municipal Kiev team and renamed to Arsenal. Btw, last year Borysfen riched Ukrainian supreme league  |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: TWINE
Date: 28-09-2004, 18:16 | Dinamo Zagreb -> Croacia -> Dinamo Rapid Juliana Kerkrade -> Roda (???) Btw, what happened with Dukla Praha? Was it renamed or it now playing in the lower division? |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: cattle_ripper
Date: 28-09-2004, 19:15 | TWINE, but what about CSKA Kiev that plays in second division of Ukraine at present? CSKA Kiev is totally different club from Borisfen and Arsenal - they play in first division at the moment? So do all these three clubs derive from one??? It's just getting more complicated to me ... |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: cattle_ripper
Date: 28-09-2004, 19:20 | Dukla Praha -> Marila Pribram now, as far as I know. They changed the city also. So Marila Pribram might be concerned as a new team IMHO. |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: anita
Date: 28-09-2004, 19:24 | They just changed sponsors (Marila) in 2000 and moved to another city (stadium). Just like Wimbledon in England....... |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: cattle_ripper
Date: 28-09-2004, 19:34 | It's not very much like Wimbledon. Dukla was an army team, they where from Praga, then they moved to the town of Pribram as Dukla Pribram, and later-on changed the name from Dukla to Marila, being no longer army team. |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: ekd
Date: 28-09-2004, 19:51 | Can a friend from Hungary tell me if Dunaffer and Dunujsvaros are the same team? |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: Stef
Date: 28-09-2004, 20:23 | Ukr Arsenal Kiev { 2001 = CSKA Kiev it's absolutely correct. CSKA was transformed into Arsenal. (The club CSKA belonged to the Ministry of Defense and now the main stockholder of Arsenal is the municipality of Kyiv) CSKA is the farm-club of Arsenal. |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: enxogo
Date: 28-09-2004, 23:42 | Go to www.european-football-statistics.co.uk and then click in the flags of the countries. In the link "Alltime table" you will see at the bottom of the table the clubs that changed names. I think there is a Romanian club that changed his name about 12 times!! |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: ralfinho
Date: 29-09-2004, 00:02 | ignjat63, I can confirm that Sachsenring Zwickau and Motor Zwickau are the same club. Today it is called FSV Zwickau. (see here ). But I think it will take some tome if we see them back in the ECs.  |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: ignjat63
Date: 29-09-2004, 07:51 | Thank you all. It seems that quite a few clubs changed names for whatever reason. However, here are some more aliases in Bert's database: CWKS Warsaw became Legia CDNA Sofia became CSKA Motor Jena became Carl Zeiss CCA Busuresti became Steaua Red Star Bratislava became Inter and later TJ Internacionale How about HIJK Helsinki and HJK Helsinki? All this is of course not important concerning today's coefficients but I suppose it's all right to know. And it is quite useful for all time statistics. |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: ignjat63
Date: 29-09-2004, 08:09 | And, yes Dukla Praha and Marila Pribram are the same club judging from http://www.fkmarila.cz/historie.htm |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: maranton
Date: 29-09-2004, 17:03 | AEK Larnaca in Cyprus was founded in 1994 after the merger of two other Larnaca teams, Pezoporikos Larnaca and EPA Larnaca, both of which had previously played in european cups especially between 1970-1980. |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: ignjat63
Date: 30-09-2004, 09:40 | ekd, Dunaffer and Dunauvaros FC are two differnt clubs. Check at http://www.dfc.hu/alap.php |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: Dima
Date: 30-09-2004, 10:27 | As far is I'm aware of HJK Helsinki and HIFK Helsinki are 2 different clubs. |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: zmse
Date: 30-09-2004, 20:41 | if you check http://www.dfc.hu/alap.php?inc_text=text_stadtort.php they considere themselves the same team but with a different name (dunaferr is the name of a steel company) |
| Re: Clubs that changed names | |
| Author: ekd
Date: 14-10-2004, 20:20 | Thank you ignjat63 |