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Author: Lunaris
Date: 25-09-2004, 18:21

Does anybody know, if the extern territories of the european countries (especially those near europe) have football clubs playing in their homecountry?
i know that teams from canarias are playing in spain, as well as there are teams from madeira and the acores in portugal, but what about teams from gibraltar, man or the channel islands, do they play in england? and do ceuta and melilla play in spain? where do teams from greenland play (if they have any)? i hope that french guyane, la reunion, guadeloupe and martinique don't have to send teams to france, although it would be quite funny

Re: Extern territories
Author: Munja Date: 25-09-2004, 21:41	On this page there are links to pages with gibraltar league, Isle of man etc. http://www.rsssf.com/results-eur.html And here is to greenland http://www.rsssf.com/tablesg/groenl99.html

Author: porto-1978
Date: 25-09-2004, 21:49

Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Gibraltar, Greenland and Turkish Cyprus and Kosovo are the only "regions" (only Kosovo and Gibraltar are not really extern territories) i know that have their own competitions. I?m not sure about Ceuta and Melilla maybe they have a competition for both(?). French Antilles don?t play in french championats for sure; as well as french pacific, indic and near quebeq territories; english atlantic, indic and pacific islands and dutch antilles.
Then there?s other well known non continental leagues as England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, North Ireland, Iceland, Faroe, Malta and (greek) Cyprus.
The clubs from other islands (non independent ones in mediterranic, atlantic, baltic, adriatic) play in the league of their own country. I guess that happens not only in portuguese, spanish, french (at least Corse), italian, greek and danish isles but also in finish, latvia, swedish, scotish, dutch, german and croatian isles that have football clubs. Is there some island from any other country (ireland, norway, turkey or other) that have professional football clubs competing in lower divisions of their countries?

Author: eoinh
Date: 25-09-2004, 22:50

I think the clubs from la reunion, guadeloupe and martinique etc might actually play in the French Cup. Im sure i remember seeing this happen on eurogoals on eurosport.

Derry City of Northern Ireland play in the Republic of Irelands League. I think also that there is some team from County Armagh (which is in Northern Ireland) playing in the republic. However its only a junior team and there is no way of it getting promoted to senior ststus.

Re: Extern territories
Author: enxogo Date: 27-09-2004, 00:47	Ceuta plays in Spain's 3rd level.

Re: Extern territories
Author: isidromv Date: 27-09-2004, 12:05	All Spanish teams play in Spanish system. It includes Continental Spain, Baleares and Canary islands, and Ceuta and Melilla. Actually, Ceuta and Melilla do not have teams in first and second levels, but for sure they have in third and lower ones.

Re: Extern territories
Author: Lyonnais Date: 28-09-2004, 14:37	I confirm that clubs from la Reunion (Indian Ocean), Martinique / Guadeloupe (Carribean) or New Caledonia / Tahiti (Pacific) play in the French cup. It is very common to have one of these reaching the 1/32, once the 1/16. But as far as I know, they are French clubs. So I do not see why they should be named among the clubs playing for another league than their country's own league.

Re: Extern territories
Author: isidromv Date: 28-09-2004, 15:07	And where do they play their matches? At least one of the contenders has to do a very log trip. In another topic there is a duscussion about what would UEFA do if teams from easter Russia qualify to EC. But Vladivostok is quite close to Europe compared to French Polynesia.

Re: Extern territories
Author: newman Date: 28-09-2004, 15:18	to porto-1978 Flota Swinoujscie from Polish part of Uznam island plays in Polish 3rd division.

Re: Extern territories
Author: anita Date: 28-09-2004, 17:47	Lyonnais, I thought there only lived cannibals on Nouvelle Caledonië, at least that's what I watch on Discovery and National Geographic Kind of risky to play those guys, when they threaten to 'eat you alive', and they mean it literally.. Do you know any clubs from NC or Polynesia that have merits in French cups? I presume they play a tournament just for Pacific first?

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 28-09-2004, 18:08

It seems like Czech top models love cannibals as Adriana (I don't remember her maiden name) got married to one of the famous representant of new Caledonian football, ie. Christian Karembeu.

Laurent Robert, from Newcastle, is a good example of the quality of football from Reunion.
Vahirua from Tahiti currently plays for Nice after been French champion with Nantes in 2001. His cousin Pascal vahirua from Auxerre played in the French team in the mid-90s.
I will certainly not mention all players coming from the Carribeans. They are so many. Most of them come from Martinique and Guadeloupe, but some others, such as Bernard Lama. goal-keeper of the French team and PSG, comes from Guyana, etc ..

Coming back to these clubs, they play together (regional qualifying rounds like everywhere else in France) until D2 clubs enter in the competition in 1/132 equivalent.They thus have some 2 or 3 granted positions in 1/132. Then there is draw to decide the opponent and where the game has to be played (French cup is played on a single game on the pitch of one of the teams). Recently one of these clubs, I think from the Reunion, managed to go to the 1/16.
They are not so bad really, and they have like a semi-professional status in la Reunion, where some good professional players are retiring, but not only.

They have a special status as these clubs are also allowed to play continental competitions such as CONCACAF club competitions (or CAF or Oceania equivalent). Should one of this club win the French club (pretty unlikely but who knows), we could have an unique situation with the same club playing say the UEFA Cup as well as the CONCACAF Cup. Theoretical case.

Re: Extern territories
Author: anita Date: 28-09-2004, 18:15	Thx, Lyonnais for new and interesting info. I wonder, if a 3rd-4th-division club in France (or Martinique!) draw a team from Tahiti on Tahiti, how do they finance that trip? Economic support from French FA, or?

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 28-09-2004, 22:15

Anita > good point Anita. Yes, overseas clubs get financial support from the FFF to make the trip to France. And, as far as I know, the teams from France playing overseas are not 100% random. Basically, they elect to be volunteer and the draw will determine who they are playing against and where.

In other terms, imagine that in the 1/128 (and not 1/132 as written before), there are 5 teams from overseas. Let's assume that 10 teams from France metropolitan area elected to play against these teams. They will be put in a special pot to make sure that overseas get one of the overseas team (but they do not know yet if they play at home or away, and if away where).
As far as I know, there has never been any game between 2 overseas team, say St Pierre from la Reunion hosting Papeete from Tahiti.

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 28-09-2004, 22:28

and just to keep on on the same subject :

Overseas regions count more than 78,000 licensed football players, i.e. around 4% of the total number of players in France. Not negligible.

The best performance ever in the French Cup is for the Geldar Kourou (Guyana) who reached the 1/16 in 1989 being defeated by Nantes.

source: http://www.rfo.fr/articles/Football%20Outremer.html (for those who are interested and read French).

Re: Extern territories
Author: Lyonnais Date: 28-09-2004, 22:32	found the result of the game in the FFF website (pretty poor by the way). At that time, cup rounds were played in 2 legs. Nantes won the first leg in Kourou 3-0 then won the second leg at home 8-0.

Author: anita
Date: 29-09-2004, 00:09

Very interesting, Lyonnais. Presume half of the registered players come from Nouv. Caledonië, since 200 000 'cannibals' are living there. And must be tempting for a lower division team to volonteer for a sponsored trip to Tahiti. They will anyway have to postpone their next match in League because of jetlag, so a week on Tahiti, hmmm. I presume Ile de Diable have no football team

Bad accomodations there, according to Henri Charriere.

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 29-09-2004, 15:43

Just another totally off-topic comment but as you seem interested by overseas areas.
I had the chance some few years ago to spend 2 months in Tahiti for work and I met there a lot of "French" that have lived in the 2 groups of islands. They all agreed that New Caledonia was really a paradise, even much better than Tahiti. I've never been to New Caledonia myself, so I cannot compare, but I presume that it should be rather impressive because I already found Tahiti rather enjoyable

Anyway, let me congratulate you for your impressive and deep knowledge of our geography and our history too as I'm pretty sure that most French have never heard anything about the "ile du diable" (devil island), whereas unfortunately it's part of our history.

Re: Extern territories
Author: porto-1978 Date: 29-09-2004, 17:26	Where is it, Ile du diable? And what about the small islands in the coast of Normandie, Bretagne etc., such as Bele Ile and so on... Is there football clubs on them?

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 29-09-2004, 23:57

the "ile du diable" is a small island near Guyana.
http://membres.lycos.fr/toucan/nouvellepage4.htm for the photos.

I do not believe that the very small islands in Normandy and Brittany really have football teams.

But islands already are over-represented n our Ligue 1 as we get 2 teams from Corsica (Bastia and Ajaccio) what is not bad for an island of just 250,000 people, i.e. less than the 15th "arrondissement" (district) of Paris.

Re: Extern territories
Author: anita Date: 30-09-2004, 00:26	Well, Lyonnais, talking about extern territories, Trondheim (where Rosenborg come from) have 150 000 inhabitants and another not very football-friendly climate compared to Corse

Author: maranton
Date: 30-09-2004, 03:22

I just want to reply about Cyprus. Cyprus became independent in 1960 and both greek and turkish cypriots joined the government till 1963 when problems began and led to turkish invasion in 1974 that still divides the island in two. Cyprus football association was established in 1934 by both turkish and greek cypriots and was recognised under this status by FIFA in 1942 and UEFA in 1960. Turkish cypriot teams took part in the early championships. The turkish team Chetin Kayia won a championship in 1951,two Cups in 1952 and 1954, and 3 super cups in 1951,1952 and 1954. After the incidents of 1963 turkish cypriot left the league but did not found a league on their own till after 1974 when the island was divided.
Both UEFA and FIFA only recognise Cyprus football association and refused on many occasions to recognise the so-called turkish cypriot football association.
Neither national teams nor football clubs that belong to UEFA or FIFA are allowed to play even a friendly game in north cyprus. Not even teams from Turkey ever dared playing a game there. If they do they will face punishments from FIFA and UEFA.

Re: Extern territories
Author: Lunaris Date: 01-10-2004, 19:17	well thx all for those interesting news, it would be nice to see a DOM-club in uefa-cup soon, just to find out how good they play

Re: Extern territories
Author: Lunaris Date: 01-10-2004, 19:21	did channel islands, isle of man or gibraltar ever try to become a member of uefa? i don't suppose they can be worse than san marino or andorra (maybe even better then faroe islands, who are quite good for their size)

Author: Lyonnais
Date: 01-10-2004, 19:38

Lunaris > yes, I would love to see Arsenal playing say Tahiti in UEFA competitions. That would made me laugh after Wenger complained so loudly when the French national team had to play in Australia (saying that it was not a responsible behaviour to organize such games and so on).

But it is unlikely to happen, but not impossible (Calais in D4 reached the French cup final in 2000 and almost won it- should they had met the French champion, they would have played the UEFA cup as runner-up).
But that would not help us improve our UEFA coefficient and we already are the country that provided the most exotic teams with a lot of teams playing in Europe while being in D2 or D3 in domestic competitions. Chateauroux, just beaten by Brugge is the last example of that long series.

Re: Extern territories
Author: Lunaris Date: 02-10-2004, 09:07	and what if one of them ends up in ligue 1? would that be possible? then they should have the quality to play in europe

Re: Extern territories
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 02-10-2004, 12:17	These teams are not in the French league system. They have leagues of their own, so it would be impossible to reach Ligue 1. Imagine if they did. They would have to travel from lets say Tahiti to France every 2 weeks.

Re: Extern territories
Author: anita Date: 02-10-2004, 12:34	Well, if I could travel to Otaheiti every other week - and get paid for it - I wouldn't cry my eyes out