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Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: Rox Date: 17-09-2004, 23:21	Was this game played?If so what's the result?I haven't found it anywhere

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: fbfan Date: 18-09-2004, 02:02	This game was not played yet. The first leg will be played on 22 September in Tel Aviv. The second leg will be played on 30 September in Holland.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: bert.kassies Date: 21-09-2004, 12:34	First match seems to be postponed due to air traffic strikes.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: mark Date: 21-09-2004, 13:07	As a matter of fact it is the whole of the unified workers which are on strike, but at least in the portals it was suggested that there might be an exception for Heerenveen

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: bert.kassies Date: 21-09-2004, 13:16	Dutch media report that Heerenveen was at Schiphol airport this morning. But are now on their way back home.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: mark Date: 21-09-2004, 13:23	It turn out that I was reading the wrong portal. Bert, as always, is right.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: leshij Date: 21-09-2004, 13:39	Does anyone know what is the standard policy of UEFA in cases the game was not played due to a strike?

Author: Indalo_FCB
Date: 21-09-2004, 14:28

@ leshij

I do not know what is the general rule of the UEFA, but I have an example how it could be solved.

In the season 2001-2002, in the UEFA cup the Russian team Anzhi was drawn in the first round against the Glasgow Rangers. But since Anzhi was located in Chechnya, a place where there was a war then, the first leg could not be played there.
So it was desided to play against each other on a neutral venue over 1 leg in Warsaw...

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: vakho Date: 21-09-2004, 15:36	I remember team from Latvia RAF Universitet coudn't fly to Faroe Islands to play with HB because of fog - UEFA made horrible decision : Latvian team was technically punished 0:3.

Author: leshij
Date: 21-09-2004, 16:24

Idalo, thanks for the reply - but the situation seems to be different. In this case an already planned match cannot take place due to external reasons.

Vakho, you cheer me not. But after such precedent - who would be responsible if the game does not take place? Until now I thought it was Maccabi PT. If the Latvians were punished because the could not arrive - maybe it's Heerenveen that is in danger of the technical defeat - for not showing up for the game? Of course, this would be a stupid decision - but the one against Latvia seems no better. Another problem is that it would be very hard to postpone this game - for the second time.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: anita Date: 21-09-2004, 16:30	Why was the match postponed in the first place? I have had some off-football days now doing those silly things you sometimes have to do to get food on the table. I think they call it work or job. Senseless waste of valuable time

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 21-09-2004, 16:43	All matches in Israel have to be played in the same stadium and it was already occupied last week, so that's why they had to play tomorrow. Reports now say that the match will be played Thursday.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: bert.kassies Date: 21-09-2004, 19:11	Last news is that the 1st leg (at the new date of Sep 23, 1600 hr) is cancelled. See Heerenveen website. Apparently the FA of Israel was not able to make a proper proposal before 1800 CET today to play the match in Tel Aviv. UEFA will take further decisions tomorrow. Maybe Cyprus? Or just one leg?

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: bert.kassies Date: 21-09-2004, 19:12	To anita. Unlike the matches in the Champions League, this match was originally postponed because of the Jewish New Year.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: rotterdam8mei2002 Date: 21-09-2004, 20:01	doesn't the uefa learn ever. why are clubs from israel allowed to play in the european cup. israel is asia and no europe. this must be an easy discision, a 0-3 score.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: fbfan Date: 21-09-2004, 21:09	doesn't rotterdam8mei2002 learn ever. First of all, you are in the wrong topic. There is a reason why Israel doesn't play in Asia. And if you bothered to read the topic on that, then you would know. Second of all, what does having a union strike have to do with playing in Asia. Europe has strikes too.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: SHEV Date: 21-09-2004, 21:15	Israel is nothing but problems.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: Jopo Date: 21-09-2004, 21:25	What is going to happen to the points for the UEFA ranking if the first leg is not played at all and the tie is set to one leg? Are the winner getting all points or are they divided?

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: rotterdam8mei2002 Date: 21-09-2004, 21:39	yes fbfan there is an reason why israel doesn't play in asia and that is that they still occupy the land of the palestines and thats the reason why everbody hates them.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: fbfan Date: 21-09-2004, 22:50	rotterdam8mei2002, Are you stupid or are you pretending to be stupid? You are in the wrong place. Do you want me to say it in another language? Take your communist propoganda to the "I hate Jews" forum. This is for football. I repeat, football.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: anita Date: 21-09-2004, 23:28	Communist propaganda, fbfan? Agree with you that some of the opinions on Israel-UEFA topic is way out of line and has infected this Forum, but please, don't carry wood to the fire by calling any criticism communist propaganda. Thats just plain stupid. The state of Israel was based on kibbutzim.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: mark Date: 22-09-2004, 01:27	Part of the original reason for postponing the game was because UEFA had decided that israeli teams can play only in two stadiums,. and there is some logistical problem with having 3 teams hosting their games in 2 stadiums, over 2 days. For now it is suggested (and people say that UEFA agrees, but its far from being official) that there would be only one game in holland.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: mark Date: 22-09-2004, 01:39	And to some more confusion, it is also being said that there is a posibility that if Heerenveen will succeed to get to israel today, the game will be played tommorow. Once again it is not official.

Author: nesh
Date: 22-09-2004, 07:44

Roter
so you simply TERROR and ARAFAT suporter no metter to football
I prefer not to mix football with HATE like u did
and if u dont know the facts about the conflict please dont mix it

ISRAEL establish after UN decision one for us the other for ARABS people here JORDAN STATE
but the other arabs country never eccept us or respect the decision

in 6 DAYS WAR (1967) ISRAEL attack all the armies arround us that the arabs collected for attacking us and they also baned us to pass in international sea near them border (egypt)and our only way to the east and AFRICA then we take control on accupied area where JORDEN preper to act, and we destroyed all the arabs tanks and arabs air forces

somewhere in 80"s JORDEN declare they stop responsibility on accupied area (it was JORDANIAN AREA) and leave them to decide about them fate

then ISRAEL CALLED to ARAFAT to make peace like they did and ARAFAT came to ISRAEL to prepere and to establish PALASTINE STATE with 98% of the area (accupied area) and to take control his people...

but in the last moment he refused his sign and demand all area included us (its too much for us for sure) and we never suffering from voilence like that b4 "THE PEACE PROCCES" with ARAFAT

but rotter that the man you chose to suport

look at ARAFAT what he DID in JORDAN STATE(aeabic country also) in september 1970
he try to make there revelution with suport from SYRIA (remind you it is JORDEN NOT ISRAEL)at the end JORDEN SEND HIM TO LIVE IN LEBANON

look at ARAFAT IN civil war in LEBANON STATE 1975 (arabic country also and guess what ? ISRAEL NOT INVOLVE AGAIN THERE)

ARAFAT still in movement 1982 ARAFAT start to send missileS from lebanon to ISRAELI northen border
ISRAEL LEBANON AND USA send ARAFAT to live in TUNIS

no word about "small" operation by personal order from ARAFAT about killing 11 sports man in olympic game 1972
killing kids in school (ARAFAT DID THAT B4) ON 70'S
killing old american and his wife (80years old)after they take control on them personal yacth somewhere in 80's

no ward about explotion buses or shoping centers ....
BASICTALLY the palastinian are suffering from his leader choice to fight and to demand the all area included us .... not logic but the same LOGIC pass in tweens in NY OR SPAIN FRANCE OR RUSIA

so if rotter u preffer to suport this is your choice but dont lie here or mix politics with football

NOW Rotter
IF EGYPT AND JORDEN make with us peace and belive me they know better from me and you about the conflict you dont ?? are you better from them ? so rotter b4 u call to uefa to send us becouse politics try to CALL LAUDLY VOICE TO PALASTINIAN TO MAKE PEACE OUR DOOR IS ALWAYS OPEN FOR PEACE

Author: JPV
Date: 22-09-2004, 08:20

Nesh, get a life... i'm not even reading the full text, because:

1� it's difficult to read what you are trying to say (you english ain't very good)
2� you are Israeli-biased, and haven't got decent access to other opinions. By using so much CAPITAL letters, you just show your hatred. Try understanding both sides of the situation, that might help...

For example, i see you're adressing the "Jordan is arab ground, Israel should be Jewish, according to the UN"...

hmm, look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

And off course they wouldn't want Jordan, because it's not a good land (desert, no water, ...). That was something to "get rid of the arabs". THe 1947 plan did fix this, but still gave the Israelis way to much area compared to where they lived... even that Israeli state would have >40% arab inhabitants...

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: eddie Date: 22-09-2004, 08:59	JPV, two points: At first, you are Belgian-biased, so you haven't got decent access to other opinions also. At second, why don't you try to argue with rotterdam? For example, send him some link about hating jews for the last 2000 years. I think the search key should be "Israel is nothing but problems". Btw, the great phrase, Shev. Short, argumented, and explain everything. Nothing changed...

Author: JPV
Date: 22-09-2004, 09:17

At first, you are Belgian-biased, so you haven't got decent access to other opinions also.

ahem... a good friend is jew, another one is Orthodox Jew, and i have a friend who's married to a palestinian woman

. Above, i can and (although rarely) do read the Jerusalem Post, and i'm able to read dutch, french, english (+american) and german newspapers. I guess that's enough material?

.

At second, why don't you try to argue with rotterdam? For example, send him some link about hating jews for the last 2000 years. I think the search key should be "Israel is nothing but problems".

Palestina-Israel is a load of problems... me and some friends agree the best way to solve the situation would be to get both Arafat & Sharon killed, but that's more something for the CIA

. I'm pretty sure Sharon is able to kill Arafat, but doesn't dare to do it, and the same (although harder to do) applis to arafat.

But in order to solve it even better, they'd better have given (in 1945) a part of Germany to the current israeli people... that would have been easier

.

and yes, i'm rather pro-palestina (although against Hamas & co) than pro-israel, because i'm very afraid of countries who mix religion and politics that much... same applies for the former afghanistan under the taliban regime & the rising "God Bless America" thingie

.

my solution for Israel/palestina would be simple:
- neither gets Jerusalem, it should be an international area, governed by the UN
- the remaining areas are to be divided according to 1947 UN plan, without settlements
- the wall should be abolished straight away, returning the land to the former owners
- no identity card may contain any religious mark, and there can be no interference (weddings, ...) between the state and the religious governments (you can still have a religious wedding, but only after a "state" wedding that has nothing to do with religion)

but we are going WAY off-topic

Author: mark
Date: 22-09-2004, 11:14

Service for those who are still interested in knowing what happens to the game.....

The official word from UEFA is here http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UEFACup/news/Kind=1/newsId=233589.html

The summery is that UEFA understands that the problem has nothing to do with P-T or the israeli FA, so there would be no penalty. The game might be played next week in Larnaca Cyprus, or canceled. In any case the second leg will be played on the 30/9 in holland.

Since we are in a coefficient forum here, it is interesting to note that at least one source claims that if the first leg will be canceled, UEFA will consider the result of this leg to be 0-0, which AFAIU will grant israel and holland one coef point.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: mark Date: 22-09-2004, 11:18	Sorry, but the negative sentnces from UEFA got me confused. There will be no game in Cyprus, so the first leg is officially canceled. Bert, do you know how does it impact the coefficients ?

Author: porto-1978
Date: 22-09-2004, 12:01

JPV: i can?t agree more with you! My solution to that political problem is just the same as yours! I add one litlle thing: instead of being governed by UN, Jerusalem could perfectly be the capital of a reformed United Nations.
But that?s not the topic anyway, this is a football forum. I think the subject was pushed by a extremly biased israeli, nesh, who needed an answer (thanks JPV). He reacts to rotterdam opinion in a way that shows all the intolerance and hate of the majority (?) of "modern" Israel citizens. Rotterdam was not ofensive, do the truth hurts you? I guess he is a Feyenoord fan and so don?t like Ajax or even Amsterdam itself, that is very related with jews. Still, he said no big deal!

About the game: is not acceptable that was not played yet! There?s no excuses... It?s a long trip, at least follow the schedules! I don?t agree with UEFA with no penalty. The result 0-0 is not fair and benefict Maccabi. To draw 0-0 at home is a good result. On 30/09 in the Netherlands only a home victory gives qualification to Heerenveen; theoricly that is one third of the possibilities! Maccabi just need to draw 1-1 or 2-2... That?s not fair.
If UEFA go ahead on that, at least, away goals rule shouldn?t be taken in account. So that any draw would force extra time.

Author: mark
Date: 22-09-2004, 12:28

Porto, I really got so annoyed with all the people here making their uninformed (and therefor seldom stupid) opinion about the mid-east public, but this is new, an uninformed opinion about football and UEFA in a european football forum. If you had bothered to read the topic from the begining and gave some more consideration to the football part instead of the politics part, You might have understood that the game which was scheduled at a uniq date because of UEFA stupid bullying of israel can not be played because Heerenveen CAN NOT GET TO ISRAEL because of the strike. well it is more of a don't want then can not, because they could fly to jordan and in additional 2 hour bus ride they would be in tel-aviv, but UEFA and Heerenveen don't want to be in Jordan. UEFA also decided that they don't want to reschudle the game, say to next week in cyprus because this is israel and not lets say russia, so when a russian team because of terror atack can not played in moscow, the game is postponed, but can israeli team to get the same treatment? NO.

BTW, I didn't know that the traffic jams from Heerenveen to schiphol are so big that a team should be awarded an advantage because they drove 100-200? Km.

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: mark Date: 22-09-2004, 12:31	And when I said seldom I meant ofcourse often.

Author: anita
Date: 22-09-2004, 13:27

Thx mark for sticking to topic

For those who want to continue the topic, please use Maccabi-Heerenveen-topic added by larry lurex.

For those who want to continue the discussion whether the state of Israel is an insane idea (a several thousand jewish fairy-tale God-given right to a certain piece of the world, no matter who is living there now after 2000 years)and read those "born and raised in a yeshiva-arguments" from nesh and some others, stick to this topic and don't bring it to other topics.

That goes for those who attack Israels membership in UEFA with political anti-Israel arguments as well. We are where we are, and strikes have prevented or postponed sport events before, not only in Israel.

OK, I can't resist

About the jewish God giving Israel to Abraham. In the Bible, God is urging Abraham to leave his land (in todays Iraq) to go to this promised land, where the Cananites where living. Fuck them, said God to Abraham (Genesis 12, 1-9). Then when Abraham had settled in verse 9, in verse 10 "And there was a famine in the land; and Abraham went down into Egypt to sojourn there, for the famine was grievous in the land".

The jewish god must have a "divine" sense of practical jokes, first "giving" Abram land fr from his homeland, and when settled, send a "grievous" famine to make Abraham flee the land

Thx for your attention

Author: JPV
Date: 22-09-2004, 14:10

well it is more of a don't want then can not, because they could fly to jordan and in additional 2 hour bus ride they would be in tel-aviv, but UEFA and Heerenveen don't want to be in Jordan.

mark, please... i don't know if you've ever organized a trip to a foreign country with a lot of foreigners, but you just don't get easy in another country without a Visa. Especially if you're visiting a country which has major political problems with Jordan

. It might be easy for EU-citizens to get a visa to Jordan & Israel (i guess that's easy to have it arranged in some hours), but for EU-foreigners, that's not so easy. I've had some troubles arranging a trip to Dover (England)(only 100 km from Belgium) for someone who had a visiting (study) permit to Belgium... guess what happens if you've got to go to a state like Jordan/Isra�l... (AND return)

UEFA also decided that they don't want to reschudle the game, say to next week in cyprus because this is israel and not lets say russia, so when a russian team because of terror atack can not played in moscow, the game is postponed, but can israeli team to get the same treatment? NO.

look at Glasgow rangers, and think again... and do consider the return has to be finished before 3 october (of at which date is the draw?)

BTW, I didn't know that the traffic jams from Heerenveen to schiphol are so big that a team should be awarded an advantage because they drove 100-200? Km.
??? what does this have to do with it? i don't think anyone said anything about traffic jams or any advantage?

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: colo Date: 22-09-2004, 17:09	UEFA have announced that away goals will NOT count in the match in holland. which means that it will be played as a final. no advantage to maccabi... Heerenveen are clear favourites.

Author: jpcccc
Date: 22-09-2004, 23:22

Anita, about the "divine" sense of pratical joke that God had with Abraham: it's not that different from the sense of pratical joke that UEFA has. Put Israel in European football, but then force them to play in Cyprus, or a single game in Holland...

As for the promised land, i always thought that the arabs are also descendants from Abraham. So, the problem is not about a promised land for the jews, but to Abraham's descent. In fact, that promised land is for arabs AND jews, according to the bible. So, what is the fuss all about ?

I guess the problem is about the arab that can't accept a jew and the jew that can't accept an arab.

Author: porto-1978
Date: 23-09-2004, 01:35

jpccc, not exactly, i?m afraid; i think Abraham belonged to the ethnic group called as semits (usually they were nomads around arab peninsula and midle east). Abraham had 2 sons, Isaac (from an egyptian slave) and Jacob (from her woman). He sent away (by his wife request) both slave and Isaac, that survived in the desert. What is called by jews are the descendents of Jacob, later on called Israel, who had 12 sons (giving the 12 tribes). It?s dificult to say if arabs are descendents of Isaac (and so descendents of Abraham) as they can also be descendents from Abraham brothers or cousins or other relatives. What i believe is that all of them (and so jews along with arabs) are descendents of Noe; so in this prespective semits are those who survived to the great floods by Noe?s more or less (sobre)natural achievements and efforts.
Still, jews and arabs could perfectly get along with each other, they are quite similar afterwards! Same family. [From India to the european atlantic coast only hebraic, arab and basc languages are non indo-european languages.>
The nature of jewish god is a reflect of the mentality of the people that wrote each part of the testments, all along the time line. Kind of a novel...

Author: anita
Date: 23-09-2004, 01:42

Porto, Ishmael, not Isaac, but what the heck. According to the Bible we all necessary have to be descendants from Noah.

And jpcccc, UEFA and other gods are practical jokers, but not mixing politics and football, I kind of pity the Israeli Football Federation. First the lights on stadium versus Rosenborg, then the "inappropriate" timing of New Year, and now the strike. Guess the jewish God is still up an going with his pranks, or maybe a message that "Thou shalt not play football against the Europeans".

Author: porto-1978
Date: 23-09-2004, 02:36

Well according to bible... i don?t believe so; i just believe that descendents of Noah are semits, that during some time they thought to be the only survivals. According to bible also Adam is father of us all and for me not even Noah is from his descendence. In my "opinion" Adam and Eve are a legend some people teached to jews when arrived to midlle east (after that people left a great "lost paradise" in actual Mali or southern Algeria, that was progressivly becaming desert due to suposed divine punishment). Realisticly, it was just part of climateric changes due to the changes from glaciar ages to the world as we know it. Another part of that chances were the floods in middle east, that gives context to Noah story. The Noah descendents probably learned Adam and Eve story and made a mix. Genesis is its result. Well, nobody have to believe on this! Is just what i believe, not having to much proves, but who have them?
I may talk about football tomorrow [today FC Porto?s 4th consecutive draw may be a reason to be so off topic> and anyway this topic is already off topic!

Author: anita
Date: 23-09-2004, 02:54

OK, porto, if you don't believe, then go to hell

The jewish genesis story (written app. 500 BC) is adopted (stolen) from babylonic religion, who adopted it from Sumer, who adopted it from........

The flood is probably refering to the catastrophy that occured app. 8 000 years ago, when the Mediterranean Sea "flooded" into the freshwater sea in the Black Sea basin. No evidence that Eufrat or Tigris had so devastating floods that they had to mention it in their sagas for thousands of years.

Off topic, me!!! Good nite, porto

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: Kronsky Date: 23-09-2004, 14:31	Start to be intresting OFF TOPIC...but then all religions are intresting There is actually a topic question here... What about coefficient??? Do the teams get 0 points or do they get 1 point (for draw?)or will the winner take 4 points?

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: Adam(L) Date: 23-09-2004, 14:40	I have had no children yet, but who knows. Eva is not my wife. Really I am a legend?

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 23-09-2004, 17:10	2 points will just vanish. And for the return the winner gets just 2 points (or 1 each if it's decided on penalty's). The same as with Rangers versus Anzhi some years ago.

Author: nesh
Date: 27-09-2004, 18:37

Jps
no one even in UN dont talk about the map from 1947
its canceld becouse the international law about "deffence war" that israel deffend them self

so start from the map from 48
the whole accupied area and basictly the area in ques. offer to arafat and he refused thats after he sign on it thats all fact you need to know and tell to your girl friends to stop feed you bullshit or stop drop it here

i hope it will be more clear for you :

ARAFAT REFUSED THE STATE OF PALASTINE

======================================
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2064500
======================================

like i see you abselutly dont know the facts, it could be peace in 5 min if arafat want to ....

follow arafat : read what CBS told about

HOW ARAFAT STEAL MONEY FROM HIS PEOPLE(1 billion $ WOW)

====================================
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4240021
/http://www.eufunding.org/accountability/EUWorkingGroupReport.html
=====================================
suha "antuanette" arafat sufferimg in paris
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4240021/
====================================

here something to think about
++
fact? Of the 30 active wars in the world today, 28 are in Islamic nations. Two thirds of the world?s political prisoners are held by Islamic States which carry out 80% of the executions in the world, not to mention amputating limbs for theft, tongues for slander and murder daughters and sisters who don?t sufficiently control their glances

some historical fact

. The Palestinians Became a People 30 Years Ago!
622 AD Hijra of Mohammed. Islam is founded, four thousand years after Jews were living in Israel.
61 BC Roman conquest of Jerusalem by Pompei. Land is divided into various provinces (maps).
70 AD First Jewish revolt. Fall of the Jewish Second Temple to Romans
133-135 Second Jewish revolt under Bar - Kochba crushed. Judea renamed Palestina by the Romans.
1005 BCE - Jerusalem Established by the Jews. King David builds a Wall around Jerusalem and Transfers the Holy Ark Inside.
950 BCE - King Solomon Builds the First Temple in Jerusalem.
1948 - Modern Israel Established by the United Nations Declaration of Israel as the Jewish State; British leave Palestine; Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia declared war on Israel. Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian invasion began. Arabs reject U.N. Petition Plan, those living in Israel join the armies of Syria and Egypt. They lose the war, they lose their land. Gaza fell under the jurisdiction of Egypt. The West Bank of the Jordan was occupied by Jordan and later annexed by Jordan.
1964 PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) founded with the aim of destroying Israel. The Palestinian National Charter (1968) officially called for liquidation of Israel.
1976 Arab terrorists hijack an Air-France airplane to Entebbe in Uganda. IDF commando units landed in Uganda, storm the plane and free most of the hostages.
1978-79 Egyptian President Anwar Sadat came to Jerusalem, spoke in Israeli Knesset (Parliament).
Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli PM Menachem Begin, meeting at Camp David under the auspices of US President Jimmy Carter, sign peace treaty between Egypt and Israel.
1993 Oslo Declaration of Principles - Israel and PLO agree to mutual recognition, Yasser Arafat and PLO will be allowed to return to Gaza. PLO and Palestinian leadership renounce violence and use of terrorism, and agree to revise the PLO charter to remove chapters referring to destruction of Israel. Palestinian terrorism continues. Arafat's "Peace of the Brave" policy now seen as "Trojan Horse" ploy for the complete conquest of Israel. PLO / PA maps illustrate all of Israel as "Palestine" - hate and incitement taught to young Palestinian children.
1994 Peace treaty between Jordan and Israel.
2000 Israeli withdrawal from a security buffer zone in Lebanon to international border is completed UN declares Israel is compliant with Resolution 425, but Iran's Hizbullah continues to attack Israel. Syria occupies Lebanon with 45,000 troops protecting opium and hashish drug industry in Lebanon's Beka Valley.
Israeli PM Barak, US President Clinton and Palestinian Chairman Yasser Arafat meet at Camp David to hammer out a final peace settlement. Arafat does not respond to Israeli peace proposals and walks out of Camp David. Arafat lobbies European leaders for support - they all respond "go back to Camp David." Arafat turns down a peace deal with Israel for fear of assasination by Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Arafat returns to terrorism with attacks on Israeli civilians using suicide terrorists to blow up Israeli civilian buses and restaurants. Israeli Operation Defensive Shield takes place and captures documents of Arafat's trail of terrorism. The White House refuses to communicate with Arafat and pleas with the Palestinian leadership to elect a true leader for peace. Arafat's Oasis Casino in Jericho is shut down. US and Israeli intelligence discover that Arafat has over 40 million dollars in stolen EU money in personal bank accounts in Switzerland.
2001 - PLO / PA Chairman Yassar Arafat, who was born in Egypt, proclaims Jerusalem the Capital of the Palestinian People!
2003 - Aqaba Summit - Abu Mazen and Ariel Sharon vow to stop violence, end terrority dispute according to the road map. Hamas and Islamic Jihad vow to continue terrorism and drive Israel into the sea.
"father" in low of arafat speeking by him self
=========================================
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/AminAlHusseini.htm
=========================================

Re: Maccabi Petah Tikwa - Heerenveen
Author: anita Date: 27-09-2004, 19:09	btw and totally off off-topic , Heerenveen will play Maccabi on 30.sept at 1800 hour at Abe Lenstra Stadion in Heerenveen.

Author: JPV
Date: 27-09-2004, 21:32

"fact? Of the 30 active wars in the world today, 28 are in Islamic nations. Two thirds of the world?s political prisoners are held by Islamic States which carry out 80% of the executions in the world, not to mention amputating limbs for theft, tongues for slander and murder daughters and sisters who don?t sufficiently control their glances "

nesh, now you're uncovering yourself purely as a Islam-hater...

that explains a lot

Author: nesh
Date: 28-09-2004, 06:34

jps wrote:
"nesh, now you're uncovering yourself purely as a Islam-hater...

that explains a lot "

jps i am purely suport with peace i also voted in election so ....
i was participate in big proveganda for peace with amore 10% from my people 2gheter
b4 sharon our pm was RABIN , PERES , BARAK all of them purely suporters peace and what was ARAFAT choice ? TEROR!!!

YES YOU RIGHT IN ONE THING
I WAS VERY DISAPOINTED FROM ARAFAT REFUSED THE STSTE OF PALASTINE BECOUSE HE DEMAND ALL... INCLUDED US ....

"Israel is nothing but problems"

jps you lost your way you want to know where is the problems look there again .....

fact? Of the 30 active wars in the world today, 28 are in Islamic nations. Two thirds of the world?s political prisoners are held by Islamic States which carry out 80% of the executions in the world, not to mention amputating limbs for theft, tongues for slander and murder daughters and sisters who don?t sufficiently control their glances

"and yes, i'm rather pro-palestina (although against Hamas & co) than pro-israel, because i'm very afraid of countries who mix religion and politics that much... same applies for the former afghanistan under the taliban regime & the rising "God Bless America" thingie . "

ALL the arabs countries are very involve with religion
included plo state . HAMAS the partner of arafat reconize by all free world like teror groupe like bin laden same thing to JIHAD ISLAMIC groups and meny groups inside plo state

"Jerusalem Post, and i'm able to read dutch, french, english (+american) and german newspapers. I guess that's enough material? . "

but you still dont understand a thing ...... but keep reading maybe one day you will able to understand in politics or to read between the lines meanwhile stay focus on football news

rooter:
"yes fbfan there is an reason why israel doesn't play in asia and that is that they still occupy the land of the palestines and thats the reason why everbody hates them"

AND

NOW YOU AND ROTTER PLEASE EXPLAIN ME WHY ARAFAT REFUSED THE STSATE OF PALASTINE ? IN ALL ACUPIED TERTORIES INCLUDED THE RESPONSIBILITY ON HOLY JERUSALEM

THATS AND ONLY THAT WILL EXPLAIN ALL