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| Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: moesli
Date: 07-09-2004, 20:53 | Does anybody know how the 8 groups in the second round of the UC will be drawn? Is it likely that they will make 5 pots of 8 teams each with seeding. (just like the 4 pots in champions league) or are the going to implement a completely different system? And if this 5 pot system is used, can anybody predict these pots? |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: moesli
Date: 07-09-2004, 21:14 | POT 1: Lazio Roma AC Parma Feyenoord Newcastle AEK Athens Stuttgart Club Brugge Rangers |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: poll74
Date: 08-09-2004, 04:47 | 5 pots of 8 teams each, but not these pots from last draw, of course accpording UEFA Team Ranking. for example: Lazio AJ Auxerre Sevilla Legia Warsaw VfL Bochum |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: Dinamo-Zagreb
Date: 08-09-2004, 12:24 | I played draw and this are the groups (of course, contenders here are who will pass through): Group A: Parma Real Zaragoza Basel Hearts Djurgardens Group B: AEK Wisla Krakow Dinamo Zagreb Steaua Bucuresti Banik Ostrava Group C: Newcastle Sporting Lisabon Sochaux Alemannia Aachen Standard Liege Group D: Stuttgart Besiktas Athletic Bilbao Heerenveen Litex Lovech Group E: Club Brugge Schalke 04 Lille Amica Wronki AZ Alkmaar Group F: Glasgow Rangers Udinese Sevilla Dnjipro Dnjipropetrowsk Ferencvaros Group G: Lazio Villareal Benfica Partizan Austria Wien Group H: Feyenoord Auxerre Genclerbirligi Levski Sofija Zenit st. Petersburg |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: JPV
Date: 09-09-2004, 09:11 | Club Brugge Schalke 04 Lille Amica Wronki AZ Alkmaar i'd love this group: Club Brugge: a belgian team (40km from my home town) Schalke 04: a former "belgian" german team Lille: 25 km's from my home town Wronki: polish side, Brugge should win against them AZ Alkmaar: nice Low lands duel... |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: anita
Date: 09-09-2004, 11:57 | The group with Rangers Stabaek Elfsborg AaB Shelbourne is most convenient for me geographically. Think Stabaek will have a good chance of reaching UCR3 in that group. |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: paulop
Date: 12-09-2004, 19:14 | hi sorry but group A is not rigth... hearts will not pass... the winner of the game will be my team... SC BRAGA best regards paulo pereira |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: putzeijs
Date: 13-09-2004, 11:51 | Well I wonder if Standard will pass trough Bochum, buth they gone like plaing A Aachen, wich is only 50 km from each other. On the whole: It isn't a Champions League buth with Austria Wien, Ferencvaros as weaker teams in a group, you can't complain about the quality of these games. |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: Kronsky
Date: 13-09-2004, 20:39 | And who says that Austria Vien will pass Legia? I think that it will be very tight between those two, with Legia, hopefully, as the winner  Regards Kronsky |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: galatasaray
Date: 14-09-2004, 15:44 | Group A: Grazer AK Lazio Beþiktaþ Lille Hearts Group B: Austria Wien Benfica Partizan Parma Real Zaragoza Group C: Sporting Lizbon Newcastle Utd. Steaua Buc. Wisla Krakow Djurgardens Group D: Milwall Schalke 04 Maccabi Haifa Basel Feyenord Group E: Auxerre Sevilla AEK Standard Liege Red Star Belgrade Group F: Trabzonspor Stutgart Heerenveen Udinese Levski Sofia Group G: Dinamo Zagrep Alemannia Aachen Middlesbrough Club Brugge AZ Alkmaar Group H: Amica Wronki Sochaux Gençlerbirliði Glasgow Rangers Villareal |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 14-09-2004, 16:19 | That would be a real coincedence as all the teams from the same drawgroups of round 1 are together in you're predictions. |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: molosztash
Date: 14-09-2004, 16:27 | heeeey!! I don't want any more Besiktas-Lazio clashes. The two clashes in the last two years are enough!! |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: Spacey
Date: 17-09-2004, 08:19 | Wich table of coëfficiënts do they use for the drw of the second round? The one after last season or the current after round 1. |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: JPV
Date: 17-09-2004, 08:23 | the one after last season |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: JPV
Date: 17-09-2004, 08:24 | this is my prediction btw:Lazio Roma Ita 83.531 |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: Spacey
Date: 17-09-2004, 08:27 | and what about newcastle?? |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: Osirius
Date: 17-09-2004, 08:29 | According to his prediction Newcastle is out)) |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: Spacey
Date: 17-09-2004, 08:51 | They've won their match 2-0 against Bnei Shaknin |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: Osirius
Date: 17-09-2004, 08:53 | I know,he knows.May be he has smth. against Newcastle)) |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: JPV
Date: 17-09-2004, 09:46 | nope, just an error... i'll correct it  |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: Spacey
Date: 17-09-2004, 10:44 | My prediction Lazio Roma Ita AC Parma Ita Feyenoord Ned Newcastle United Eng AEK Athens Gre VfB Stuttgart Ger Club Brugge Bel Glasgow Rangers Sco Villarreal Esp AJ Auxerre Fra Schalke '04 Ger Sporting CP Lisbon Por Real Zaragoza Esp Besiktas Tur Wisla Kraków Pol Benfica Por Lille OSC Fra Sevilla Esp Dinamo Zagreb Cro FC Basel Sui FC Sochaux-Montbéliard Fra Gençlerbirligi Tur Middlesbrough Eng FC Utrecht Ned Grazer AK Aut Maccabi Haifa Isr Partizan Belgrade Srb Steaua Bucuresti Rom Hearts FC Sco Heerenveen Ned Alemannia Aachen Ger VfL Bochum Ger Amica Wronki Pol Panionios Gre Ferencváros Hun Trabzonspor Tur AZ Alkmaar Ned Zenit St. Petersburg Rus SK Beveren Bel Austria Wien Aut |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 21-09-2004, 13:32 | UEFA published UEFA Cup Group Stage Draw: "The objective of this draw is to divide the 40 teams into 8 groups of 5 teams in accordance with the seeding principles, based on the UEFA list of club coefficients. The 40 teams will be allocated to five pots. Pot A will comprise the top eight clubs in the club coefficient rankings, Pot B the following eight clubs in the rankings, and so on for pots C, D and E." Still not clear if these (A,B,C,D,E) have anything to do with the (A,B,C,D,E) of the match sequence in section 4.05 of the Regulations of the UEFA Cup 2004/05. I don't think so. For me it would make more sense to use a computer draw to generate the match sequence (like in the Champions League group draw). But on the the other hand it might be to much abstraction for the UEFA administration to use the same set of symbols for different purposes |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: arti
Date: 22-09-2004, 14:42 | Yes. If it was simple parallel they should name the clubs as 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 - as they do in CL regulations. I can't remember how do they name the pots - letters or numbers? |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: kunkello
Date: 22-09-2004, 17:43 | From my perspective, the regulation section you mentioned in combination with the Pot naming makes some sense. The rule seems to always give the home game to the higher seed when "neighboring pots" are matched (e. g. A hosts B, C hosts D, D hosts E). Then, the strongest Pot (A) plays away the weakest Pot (E), the 2nd strongest (B) plays away the 2nd weakest (D). The remaining games are probably a result of some other clauses that my logic can't see. If I am right, this would mean that the highest ranked team definetely has two benefits: a) it hosts the 2nd strongest team of the group and b) it has the easiest away game. |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: arti
Date: 22-09-2004, 18:07 | I wonder, when UEFA aranges those rules (pots, distribution of games, geographical groupings). Just before the draws? Seems so, because otherwise they should be written in regulations of each competition, that are published on their site. |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: porto-1978
Date: 23-09-2004, 01:50 | UEFA should make the rules very clear from the begining. Otherwise give me reasons to doubt on their good will... are they waiting for concrete scenarios to decide?!? Decisions should be made on an abstract scenario, when it?s not predictable who can benefict from one rule or another. |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: anita
Date: 23-09-2004, 02:07 | I think kunkello is right here. Since they are using the same letters A,B,C,D,E it seems that they will play the matches in the order described in "Regulations of the UEFA-cup 2004/05". And moreover, bert writes that "it would make more sense to use a computer draw". Of course, but what (in the name of Johansson) have "(make more) sense" in common with UEFA and their arbitrary regulations? |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: porto-1978
Date: 23-09-2004, 02:11 | And yes, this system clearly benefict the top seeded teams. Not only on wich games they play home and away, but also on wich matchday they rest (well of course this is a more relative question because of domestic competitions diferent calendars). |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: bert.kassies
Date: 23-09-2004, 09:35 | anita is right that "sense" is not a good argument here. But neither is the opposite. I agree with all of you that the match sequence is not bad for team A. But the real fight in the group is for postion 3. Now look at poor team E (and assume it's the lowest ranked team). Suppose they played extremely well, and might possibly reach to the 3rd place. But are forced to watch the other teams making some "deals" at the last matchday. Should be plenty room to speculation. |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: Forza-AZ
Date: 23-09-2004, 12:42 | This will be the pots if unseeded teams that won at home with 2 goals or won away progress to round 2 (only 3 unseeded teams have this: Panionios, AZ, Zenit). Pot A Lazio Roma Ita 83,531 U 1 Parma Ita 66,531 U 1 Feyenoord Ned 65,246 U 1 Newcastle United Eng 61,510 U 1 AEK Athene Gri 51,467 U 1 VfB Stuttgart Dui 47,331 U 1 Club Brugge Bel 43,529 C Q2 Glasgow Rangers Sch 42,601 C Q3 Pot B Villarreal Spa 42,351 Int R2 Auxerre Fra 34,947 U 1 Schalke'04 Dui 34,331 Int R3 Sporting Lissabon Por 33,970 U 1 Real Zaragoza Spa 33,351 U 1 Besiktas Tur 32,656 U 1 Wisla Krakow Pol 31,177 C Q2 (was Pot C) Benfica Por 29,970 C Q3 (was Pot C) Pot C Lille Fra 27,947 Int R3 Sevilla Spa 26,351 U 1 Athletic de Bilbao Spa 26,351 U 1 Dinamo Zagreb Kro 25,734 U Q2 Basel Zwi 25,384 C Q3 Sochaux Fra 24,947 U 1 Genclerbirligi Tur 23,656 U Q2 (was Pot D) Levski Sofia Bul 21,599 U Q2 (was Pot D) Pot D Millwall Eng 20,510 U 1 Middlesbrough Eng 20,510 U 1 Utrecht Ned 20,246 U 1 Legia Warschau Pol 20,177 U Q2 Grazer AK Oos 19,971 C Q3 Maccabi Haifa Isr 19,012 C Q3 (was Pot E) Partizan Belgrado Ser 18,654 U Q2 (was Pot E) Steaua Bukarest Roe 17,880 U Q2 (was Pot E) Pot E Hearts of Midlothian Sch 17,601 U 1 Heerenveen Ned 17,246 U 1 VfL Bochum Dui 16,331 U 1 Allemania Aachen Dui 16,331 U 1 Amica Wronki Pol 16,177 U Q2 Panionios Gri 15,467 U 1 (was not in round 2) AZ Ned 11,246 U 1 (was not in round 2) Zenit St.Petersburg Rus 9,572 U Q2 (was not in round 2) |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: anita
Date: 23-09-2004, 18:18 | thx, forza. Since there are five teams in the group, some team will have walk-over the last round, and other teams may speculate in points and outcome. But it makes sense to me (hmmmm) that the lowest ranked team then will have that disadvantage. Of course if UEFA is following those rules and not a random ABCDE draw. But anyway disadvantage for the E-team. And better to give all the teams in the same seeding-pot the same chances/possibilities. Or? |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: kurt
Date: 23-09-2004, 18:43 | Group team in uefacup , yes, i find it a good idea. Also with five teams, each two homes and two away games, but three winners of five, that is no competition. It should be only the top two who should go to the next round. That are 16 teams. The winners get a bye for the next round and the 8 runners up play against the 3th of champions league. I would like to see that. What is your opinion ? |
| Re: Uefa Cup, group stage | |
| Author: JPV
Date: 23-09-2004, 20:21 | "The winners get a bye for the next round and the 8 runners up play against the 3th of champions league. " it might be better for teams like Newcastle to be a runner up |