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Author: MichaelCollins
Date: 06-09-2004, 00:50

As far as I am aware, there is only one team in Norway. Well, not quite, but only one team has finished first in Norway for as long as I can remember, and certainly at least a decade.

What my question is to people who know more about Norwegian football than me (people like Anita for example) is who do you think will end the domestic dominance of Rosenborg?

From previous years have Tromso and Lillestrom not run them close? Is it becoming a pyscholigical advantage for Rosenborg (ie, "We cant beat them, they always win the league")?

Author: anita
Date: 06-09-2004, 12:56

There has been close several years. Here is a link: Norwegian PL history.

But yes, Michael, Rosenborg have a "tendency" to win the important matches, not only because the opponents may have an inferiority complex, but because Rosenborg (players and as a team) are experts on focusing ("table presence"). Just take CLQ. In 11 years they have never stumbled once to a team ranked lower than them.

Norwegian teams have - as elsewhere in Europe - had an economical crisis later years. Rosenborg has avoided that because of their CL-money. Now it seems that several clubs are getting more grip of it, at least the economy. If a club (in little Norway) shall function over years, it need structure on all levels. And there are still a lot of messy hierarchies in NorPL-clubs. But hope to see a steady contender in some years. Still noone in sight.

It would be nice if Norway could have at least one team except Rosenborg that participated in EC on a steady basis. Presume you have the same wishes for Scotland. A third team, not necessarily challenging Old Firm, but with plans and economy(!) for some years ahead. Maybe Hearts?

Author: Michele
Date: 06-09-2004, 17:07

Michael, you wanted a name for a club that could take the trophy away from Rosenborg. Of course Rosenborg won't be champions forever (presumably), but it is very hard to pick which team will win the first non-Rosenborg championship, because the Norwegian league is very inconsistent as anita has also argued several times.

One year, Bodų/Glimt is the main contender, next year it is Molde and then Brann, Viking, Lillestrųm or almost any team from Tippeligaen. This year Tromsų is the best guess, but they will have a very hard time going past Rosenborg in the last 7 games. Next year Odd?, Stabęk?, Ham/Kam? will be the best guess for dethroning Rosenborg.

Maybe anita has a better overview on general trends in Norway, but my best guess for a "new" champion is Brann if they can get their economy back on track. However, it may take 3, 5 or 10 years before it happens and perhaps Brann are relegated next year...

Mikael

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: seso Date: 06-09-2004, 19:42	Some years ago it was Molde that had taken part in the CL for Norway. I remember they had played Olympiakos (and must have beaten them as most teams do...)

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: seso Date: 06-09-2004, 20:00	It was the 99-00 period. But again Molde was 2nd after Rosenborg.

Author: MichaelCollins
Date: 06-09-2004, 23:15

As for Scotland, The Old Firm is dominant, but Aberdeen are suddenly exploding onto the scene after a many years of relegation fighting. But their new manager Jimmy Calderwood (ie, former Dunfermline manager) has made an instant impact- Aberdeen after 4 games are the only team in Britain not to concede a goal. It remains to be seen if they can keep this up, but they are currently separating the Old Firm.

Hearts, under the wieght of the Murrayfield move, coach uncertainties and Lithuanian millionaires, could easily self destruct. Personally I hope they dont. A weakened Hearts wont help our League. We need a strong Celtic, a strong Rangers,a strong Aberdeen and a strong Hearts, with the Hibs and Motherwell youngsters improving each year....it could be getting better sooner than later.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: Aliceag Date: 07-09-2004, 02:39	I looked at my cristal ball. It said that Rosenborg will lose his 17th championship in a row, to Molde with a difference of 2 points, due to some irregular performances. It won't be Molde that will be excepcionaly good, but Rosenborg who will fail in some "easy" games.

Author: anita
Date: 07-09-2004, 11:55

As long as there is a competition, as long as other teams have ambitions and a realistic chance of challenging Rosenborg for the championship, it's irrelevant (for me) whether Rosenborg take 25 in a row. This season they are 4 points in front, and maybe one after next week-end.

In Scotland Old Firm is so far ahead that its only a wet dream for a Hearts/Aberdeen-supporter to qualify for CL. In that case Scotland must be among the six first on UEFA-ranking.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: Dinamo-Zagreb Date: 07-09-2004, 13:47	Why did no one mentioned Vallerenga Oslo? They were very good last year, having been able to qualify to R3 and tightly losse to Newcastle. They passed Graz AK 0:0, 1:1 and Wisla 0:0, 0:0 (5:4-11m). What's the key of their sensation???

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: ianmorrison Date: 07-09-2004, 17:55	Scotland among top 6 is possible. Very unlikely but looking ahead to 2007, there is a possibility especially if Germany have another poor year.

Author: anita
Date: 07-09-2004, 19:12

DinamoZagreb, last year Valerengen did a fabulous effort in EC, but had to play play-off matches to avoid relegation. Valerengen are among the clubs most likely to threaten Rosenborg, but for many years now they have had a lousy administration throwing money into a black hole. Rosenborg- Valerengen next week-end, and Valerengen are fighting for CLQ-spot next year. Norway have two places 2005/06.

But as I answered earlier, I can't spot any especial team challenging Rosenborg yet. But several have potential.Almost every year the silver medalist prophecies that they will stabilize up there. Next season they are crawling in the mud.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: ToRn Date: 11-09-2004, 22:33	Rosenborg - Valerenga 1:4 well, the score is an answer to your question

Author: anita
Date: 12-09-2004, 13:03

Well, ToRn, it may seem so, but traditions and attitude in Valerenga is that whenever they play a splendid match (as they did yesterday), they rest on their laurels thinking that everything is OK. And then they lose their next match 5-0 or going down one division next year. Hope they will work hard to achieve a continuity on high level in team and club .

According to resources (economical, spectators and so on), Valerenga should have been up there (long ago), not Rosenborg.

Author: brannbergen
Date: 27-09-2004, 17:19

well, maybe my team, sk brann of bergen, can challenge rosenborg next year.

with a solid economy and a stable administration after having been run like a cross between a dog- and a madhouse for some years, good players like Robbie Winters( ex- aberdeen/dundee united), bengt sęternes (ex club brugge ), and paul scharner ( ex austria wien(salzburg) have come into good form at Brann.

however, Rosenborgs dominance will not fail until core players like Hoftun, Berg and Strand call it quits. Then it's up for grabs..

- brannbergen

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: anita Date: 27-09-2004, 18:59	Yes, Brann have had a stable economy and administration for several months now (according to the stable administration in Brann), so I guess you are right

Author: Skyer
Date: 28-09-2004, 19:32

IMHO, it is better for clubs of Norway to become stronger themselves and to achieve something in Europe, instead of "killing" Rosenborg at home.

In Russia, the dream of many people came true - Spartak Moscow fell down, and was no longer the champion(maybe next year again...). And what? Russian coefficients fell directly down, only 4 teams take part in Eurocups, and everyone, instead of Lokomotiv was a crap there(maybe CSKA will do something this year). 2-3 years of Spartak crisis became crisis of whole Russian football in Europe.

Author: Rx
Date: 28-09-2004, 20:53

Skyer

ROFL what a bullshit are u talking about? It seems like Russian coefficient fell down to deep hole from 6th place when Spartak was the champion and played in Europe. Since Spartak got to 10th Russian coefficient grew extremly high, and is going to rise more and more. Last year was the best for 7 years, and this year, first without Spartak in Europe, Russia has (in middle September) one of the best coefficients it ever had. Its only the problem of Spartak, that it cannt handle dramatically improved clubs anymore.

Author: Skyer
Date: 28-09-2004, 21:44

I won't answer to such an unpolite message, but for the others say - the coefficient crisis began after year 2000, the last successful year of Spartak. This crisis began, because the 95th year - supersuccessful for Russian clubs, no longer made deal for coefs., and country needed more victories to stay on top, or at least not to begin it's direct fall. After year 2000 the team began to lose it's strength("thanks" to Andrey Chervichenko), but "on the old baggage" still played in CL for 2 years(crap years).

Author: Ricardo
Date: 04-10-2004, 11:34

Rosenborg is doing its best to make it exciting the last few weeks!
Norway, Russia and Sweden are all in their last weeks of the championship. And they are all very tight and interesting to follow. And Don't forget Latvia, Belarus, Iceland and even Lithuania is worth taking a look at.
Hmmm. This site has taken way too much time of me recently. Luckily I have restrained myself (sofar)from following these leagues even on livescore.

Author: anita
Date: 04-10-2004, 17:00

The Nor PL is going just the way I hope. With two teams in CLQ next season, the best position would be if Valerengen (CLQR3) won ahead of Rosenborg (CLQR2). I consider Rosenborg more likely (merits, experience, consistency) to go through from CLQR2, the tricky and dangerous round, since teams losing there are out of UEFA competitions.

Norway have had enough of depressing examples of runner-up teams in CLQR2 being eliminated there, ruining NOR country coeff.

And of course for football in Norway, a little change in the top is just positive. May backfire though, other teams spending too much money (going bananas)in hope of winning the league next year. But hoping that is a past chapter in history. Noone can challenge Rosenborg for years and years when it come to money in the bank.

Scandinavial League
Author: thrasher Date: 17-10-2004, 04:35	Well, I would suggest that Norway, Sweden and Denmark (and maybe Finland) will merge their competitions...

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: Andresco Date: 17-10-2004, 06:03	That would be interesting. But it's impossible, I guess. Did such a thing ever happen as a merging of championships?

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 17-10-2004, 11:41	If the leagues merged what would happen to Viking, Brann, Elfsborg, Midjytland and all the other small teams who wouldnt fit in a merged league once you put in all the Rosenborgs, Brondbys, FCKs and Djurgardens? Its simpy not a fair plan for the smaller teams.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: Lunaris Date: 17-10-2004, 12:08	as i know they did something similar, well it's a test for the big clubs of norway, sweden and denmark, since only the top 4 of all country play in the newly created nordic league, but well it's a good experiment though every kind of competition that helps improve teams in terms of experience against tougher opponents it's worth it, don't you think so?

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: Ricardo Date: 17-10-2004, 21:06	Is Rosenborg loosing and has Valrenga the chance to get on top 2 games before the end, do they draw against number last of the league. What a sensation. Both have now the same number of points and the same goal-difference. Rosenborg has far more scored, so Valarenga has to score more in their lat two games. Anita, can they do it? Rosenborg has the game against Arsenal also, so...

Author: anita
Date: 18-10-2004, 01:08

Rosenborg lost yesterday (four losses in five latest matches) and gave way for Valerenga today. But do you think they grabbed the opportunity? Valerenga obviously think this is Tour de France or 10 000m in athletics. No point in going up and lead the 'pack' before the final spurt.

And I have no idea who will win it. Psychologically Rosenborg is better off now given another chance to do it on their own (and Valerenga ditto disappointed), but first 'we' have to mush PSV

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: Ricardo Date: 18-10-2004, 08:13	Oops, I though about saying that they played well against Arsenal, but accomplished nothing in the league the last ... matches. And as I was looking for that, I completely forgot what I wanted to say. PSV is their opponent Wednesdayat home, then the 2 last league matches and then again PSV(away). Are they tired, or are they just focused on the CL?

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: vakho Date: 25-10-2004, 10:30	After yesterdays result it is really interesting. Both Rosenborg and Vålerenga have +15 goalwise. Though Rosenborg scored more (they are better even in this). So last round will decide who will score more. Looks like 10 000 meters finish for me

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: Ricardo Date: 25-10-2004, 10:38	What about Swedens final week? 3 teams together at the 1 spot:Halmstad, Malmo, Goteborg, where Goteborg has to play the other 2. They have their faith in their own hands! And after this week they play next week the Cupfinal. They can take the double or be out of everything.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: yirdum Date: 25-10-2004, 11:18	rosenborg have to take it with 3-2 VS LYN and IFK have to try win SWEDISH title since they are my favorites

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: vakho Date: 25-10-2004, 11:33	For Sweden it's still 25th day main games today. The last round would be next weekend. It's very tough to say now.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: akis71 Date: 25-10-2004, 15:00	what will happen if both teams have same results at last games? Rosenborg will be 1st?

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: vakho Date: 25-10-2004, 15:58	To Akis - based on general principle , as you see now Rosenborg is 1st and in case with the same result it will remin first. I never heard about "golden match" principle in Norway, so seems like Rosenborg will be champion.

Author: anita
Date: 26-10-2004, 21:46

Rules in Norway
1. Points
2. Goal difference
3. Goals scored

So Rosenborg will be first.
Another very interesting point between Norway and Sweden. If Halmstad win the league (as it seems now), they will almost guaranteed be seeded in CLQ2 next year (13.076). (If Malmo FF win (5.076), they will be unseeded in CLQ2).

And Halmstad-win may have crucial effect if Valerenga come second in Norway. Then Valerenga will be in great danger of being unseeded in CLQ2. Just now at 13th (of 14 seeded), but teams from Romania (Rapid and Steauea), Croatia (Dinamo Zagreb and Ossijek) or Switzerland (e.g. Basel on second in league, starting in CLQ2) may overcome them.

So though a Rosenborg supporter, I will not be too depressed if Valerenga win the league. CLQ2 is a nailbiting round for wannabe-teams, so as a good team leader I will put our most merited team into that round, i.e. Rosenborg. Valerenga have capacity (just now,OK) to qualify for UC groups (if eliminated in CLQ3), bringing vital coeff points to Norway.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: thrasher Date: 29-10-2004, 01:28	Well, I still think that the only chance for Scandinavion teams to really play a role in Europe is creating a Nordic league...

Author: anita
Date: 30-10-2004, 16:42

Well, in some small hours we will get the answer on topic. Malmö won the Swedish PL today, meaning that they will be unseeded in CLQ2 next year (5.076). Bad news for Sweden, since Halmstad would have given them an almost 100% secure seeding there(13.076).

But give an advantage to Valerenga, if they end second in Nor PL. Then Valerenga (11.582) very,very probably will be seeded in CLQ2. If Valerenga win league, they will start in CLQ3 and Rosenborg in CLQ2.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: Ricardo Date: 30-10-2004, 21:36	Rosenborg won 4-1, Valerenga 3-0, both scored twice in the last 10 minutes. Valeranga had 'virtualy' the championship between the 83rd and 89th minute. In the end Rosenborg is the champion! congratulations!!

Author: mzok
Date: 31-10-2004, 09:58

"If the leagues merged what would happen to Viking, Brann, Elfsborg, Midjytland and all the other small teams who wouldnt fit in a merged league once you put in all the Rosenborgs, Brondbys, FCKs and Djurgardens? Its simpy not a fair plan for the smaller teams."

Brann is quite a big club. But anyway these "smaller teams" would play in a 2nd division or in a national feeder league, either of which would have promotion to, or relegation from, the "Scandanavian League" every season. So it would be perfectly fair and in fact just like now.

13 years in a row, no offence but how boring is that? Something has to be done, surely.

It's funny that in capitalist USA, measures like wage caps, equal TV money distribution, play-offs and player drafts are in place to stop such uncompetitiveness...yet Europeans won't even consider the ideas.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: ralfinho Date: 31-10-2004, 17:20	Congratulations to Rosenborg and to anita. I just had a look to the goal sequences in livescore.com. Must have been a heart attack decision. I can't see anything boring in such a decision.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: Gabi Date: 31-10-2004, 17:34	hi, i saw the goal minutes. it really was a great final. even if some would say it would be boring that a team wins championship after championship with no competition. but i would like in my country Dinamo Bucharest to dominate like that. anyway, congradulations to Rosenborg BK and to Valerenga and to anita. ps: how old are you anita? hope u don't mind me asking.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: mzok Date: 31-10-2004, 18:08	yeah the end to the season is exciting of course but 13 years in a row? ridiculous I bet even most Rosenberg fans wanted them to lose.

Author: anita
Date: 31-10-2004, 19:13

Gabi, check it out! Maradona and I have birtday same day. I am five years older than Diego Armando. Next year I wish for a rocking chair

Thx for congrat. But as I have mentioned before, I'd rather have Rosenborg in CLQ2 next year than Valerenga. Both teams probably seeded in CLQ2, but trust more that Rosenborg will advance to CLQ3.

As far as I know, Skonto Riga have the (European) record with 13 in a row (equaled now by Rosenborg), but have some difficulties this year (Metalurgs). And no, that is not a record to brag so much about as long as Rosenborg presently have the (by far) best economy and resources of Nor teams. But if it proves just as exciting as yesterday next years, no problem.

Even third place in Nor PL on scored goals.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: VR6Vic Date: 31-10-2004, 19:45	13 years in a Row? Dam, that's a long time. Congrats Rosenborg.

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: MichaelCollins Date: 31-10-2004, 21:49	And Rosenborg celebrate by sacking their manager? What gives?

Re: Who will end Rosenborg s dominance?
Author: ralfinho Date: 02-11-2004, 20:10	anita, you said "And no, that is not a record to brag so much about as long as Rosenborg presently have the (by far) best economy and resources of Nor teams." I think no excuses necessary. As I said in another thread, these things do not fall from heaven.

Author: anita
Date: 03-11-2004, 13:31

Agree, ralfinho, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

But when one club is so dominating as Rosenborg is, it may hamper the other clubs. If you look at later years, teams that have tried to compete with Rosenborg and (obviously) overstretched:

Second place:
1993, Kongsvinger, 1994 they ended on 8th place
1993, Bodo, 1994, 10th place
1995, Molde, 1996, 8th place
1996, Lillestrom, 1997 8th place
1997, Brann, 1997, 6th place
1998, Molde, 1999, 2nd place (ONE exception)
1999, Molde, 2000, 7th place
2000, Brann, 2001, 7th place
2001, Lillestrom, 2002, 7th place
2002, Molde, 2003, 9th place
2003, Glimt, 2004, 12th place and play-off for relegation. And third team in 2003, Stabaek, relegated.

And lot of years even third placed teams have ended up in serious problems the year after. Since Norway have summer season, the teams start in European cups the year after. When several of them are fighting in the mud in Nor PL, it's not a good basis for success in Europe.

Though, last season Valerengen had success in UC, even if they had to play play-off-matches to avoid relegation.