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New team entry
Author: Lunaris Date: 28-08-2004, 12:09	This year only Maccabi Tel Aviv is new to the CL all other clubs did play it before, when will be the first year with no new entry? i suspect it to be in three years, season 07/08 what do you think?

Re: New team entry
Author: JPV Date: 28-08-2004, 12:16	if there's only one team this year, and few surprises in CLQ3 are to be noted, changes are high it'll happen next year...

Re: New team entry
Author: Rosa Date: 28-08-2004, 16:26	No, next year Wisla will be playing in CL

Re: New team entry
Author: EarlofBug Date: 30-08-2004, 01:53	I agree with Rosa (:

Re: New team entry
Author: Emperor Date: 30-08-2004, 01:58	If Wisla plays good this year in UEFA Cup they will be seeded in CL qr3 next years

Re: New team entry
Author: anita Date: 30-08-2004, 02:21	Emperor, I will estimate Wisla need at least 8-9 points (on their own) to be seeded next season. Maybe more. But why not?

Re: New team entry
Author: Emperor Date: 30-08-2004, 16:25	Anita I agree with you. They got 12 points in season 2002/2003 so why can't they get 8-9 now. Till now they have got 2 points for WIT Tbilisi so they need 3-4 victories and it shouldn't be any problem.

Re: New team entry
Author: arti Date: 30-08-2004, 16:27	Sorry, but they (we) don't have any points - qualification rounds points add only for the teams sake.

Re: New team entry
Author: arti Date: 30-08-2004, 16:28	By "teams" I mean of course nations (strange equation though)

Author: anita
Date: 30-08-2004, 17:06

Yes, like arti say. And Wisla then earned 10 points for themselves in 2002/03. But now its another order with the group stage. If you give Wisla 4 points against Tbilisi, and being ranked in pot 3 now in UC group stage, but pot 2 if any of the 16 teams ranked ahead is eliminated (will probably happen), they may put up 4-5-6 points there, going to round 3 and pick up another couple of points, giving 11-12 points.

The problem is that lot of teams they fight against when it comes to seeding next year in CLQ3, have the same possibilities. PAOK, Rangers, Besiktas, Brügge,Sporting, Auxerre. But the only thing Wisla can do anyway, is to take as many points as possible, and then we will see which teams will qualify for CLQ3.

There is a domestic league to play as well first

Author: Emperor
Date: 30-08-2004, 18:51

You are wrong about PAOK,Rangers,Besiktas... . Next year it will be first year when season 99/00 will not count for coefficient ! Wisla was every year in european cup except 99/00. However they got chamionship of Poland they were punished by UEFA for year before accident in match Wisla-Parma when some idiot threw a knife into Dino Bagio's head. And we should thank this idiot who is spending now his life in prison for being unseeded this year. Next year looking at coefficient we will be able to forget about him...

Author: arti
Date: 30-08-2004, 19:55

I see that it's time to bring back my predictions of next season CL QR3...
It's based on coeffs earned by now, and current national leagues standings. Where they didn't start, it's taken outcome of last season

seeded:
Real Madrid CF (Hiszpania 4) 116,861
FC Barcelona (Hiszpania 3) 103,861
FC Internazionale (Włochy 4) 82,278
Juventus FC (Włochy 3) 73,278
Celtic FC (Szkocja 1) 58,240
Feyenoord (Holandia 2) 49,569
Club Brugge KV (Belgia 1) 41,157
Rosenborg BK (Norwegia 1) 34,418
Olympiacos CFP (Grecja 2) 34,009
FC Dynamo Kyiv (Ukraina 2) 30,616
Wisła Kraków (Polska 1) 30,517
Werder Bremen (Niemcy 3) 27,149
RC Lens (Francja 3) 26,071
FC Basel 1893 (Szwajcaria 1) 24,146
SL Benfica (Portugalia 3) 23,264
FC Shakhtar Donetsk (Ukraina 1) 19,616

unseeded:
Maccabi Haifa FC (Izrael 1) 18,805
FK Partizan (Serbia i Czarnogóra 1) 18,104
FK Teplice (Czechy 2) 18,058
Fenerbahçe SK (Turcja 2) 16,634
Bolton Wanderers FC (Anglia 3) 16,432
Tottenham Hotspur FC (Anglia 4) 16,432
Grazer AK (Austria 1) 15,063
PFC CSKA Sofia (Bułgaria 1) 13,788
Halmstads BK (Szwecja 1) 12,828
Ferencvárosi TC (Węgry 1) 11,729
Aberdeen FC (Szkocja 2) 10,240
RAA Louviéroise (Belgia 2) 10,157
Tromsř IL (Norwegia 2) 6,418
FC Thun (Szwajcaria 2) 6,146
FC Krylya Sovetov Samara (Rosja 1) 5,994
FC National Bucuresti (Rumunia 1) 5,890

Re: New team entry
Author: timbo Date: 30-08-2004, 20:18	@arti FC Shakhtar Donetsk (Ukraina 1) 19,616 is seeded? Ok, this is early standing, but -with all respect- this shall never happen. Someone that is telling that a team is seeded in CL Q3 with a of coeff. 19.616, must be joking.

Re: New team entry
Author: arti Date: 30-08-2004, 20:30	Well of course. Just look at the early standings in english premierleague - 3rd and 4th Bolton and Tottenham! I'm also sure, that in Scotland - as always - there won't be other team on the 2nd then Rangers. Belgian league will also go in another direction, and so on and on... Well. For me it's good to feel for just a moment, that Wisla is so highly seeded...

Re: New team entry
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 30-08-2004, 21:14	Why it Feyenoord in there? They are top of the league, PSV is 2nd.

Re: New team entry
Author: anita Date: 30-08-2004, 21:18	Yes, timbo, artis lists are totally useless. Though funny I will (in due time) make such lists myself. Arti, do you have predictions for CLQ2 as well?

Re: New team entry
Author: anita Date: 30-08-2004, 21:28	And arti, I see in Polish Italy is something like Wochy and Germany is Niemcy. Some explanation?

Author: anita
Date: 30-08-2004, 22:35

Emperor, here is an updated team ranking from place no 34 to 60:

Boavista 43,263
Hertha BSC 43,148
AEK Athen 43,009
Sparta Praha 42,056
Club Brugge 41,155
Monaco 41,071
Nantes 38,071
Villarreal 36,860
Real Mallorca 36,860
Málaga 36,860
Lokomotiv Moskva 35,994
Rayo Vallecano 35,860
Slavia Praha 35,057
Rosenborg 34,417
PAOK Thessaloniki 34,009
Olympiakos Pireus 34,009
Glasgow Rangers 33,238
Olympique Marseille 33,071
Auxerre 32,071
Slovan Liberec 32,057
Schalke '04 31,148
Real Betis 30,860
Besiktas 30,634
Dinamo Kiev 30,615
Wisla Kraków 30,516
Sporting Lisboa 30,263
Ipswich 29,432
Spartak Moskva 28,994
Real Sociedad 28,860

Re: New team entry
Author: timbo Date: 30-08-2004, 22:51	I have not said that it is always useless, but it is for now. I know that -when most of the competitions are ending- everybody is trying to make such a list. I am counting on you Anita, to make such a list But you don't have to hurry, there is plenty of time

Re: New team entry
Author: Ricardo Date: 30-08-2004, 23:01	Anita!, Pay attention, there was a lengthy language-thread about 1-2 weeks ago(before all the excitement started again with real matches and draws) about Wlochy and Niemcy. What was not in the thread, but is interesting is the name of another country: Serbia & Czarnogora. In Holland we use Montenegro, which is the Latin word for it, How do you call this? Poland :Czarnogora Holland:Montenegro

Re: New team entry
Author: kondor Date: 30-08-2004, 23:25	Srbija i Crna Gora {- in Serbian/Yugoslavian Serbia and Montenegro {- in English

Re: New team entry
Author: SHEV Date: 30-08-2004, 23:35	Ricardo, it has simple explanation: Monte-Mountain-Gora Negro-Black-Czarna(in ukr - Chorno) So Chornogoria is Black Mountain which means Montenegro. I think it's italian(???). "Serbia and Chornogoriya" in ukrainian.

Re: New team entry
Author: anita Date: 30-08-2004, 23:45	And in Russian, The Black Sea is Tsjernoje More.? And yes Ricardo, I tried to find that thread about Germany and Italy in Polish, because I didn't remember what came out of it. Didn't find it.

Re: New team entry
Author: kondor Date: 31-08-2004, 04:41	Crna = Black Gora = Mountain Crna Gora = Black Mountain You guys are right

Re: New team entry
Author: areksen Date: 31-08-2004, 05:58	We're way off the subject but... one more (you already know Wloch and Niemcy) Polish - English - Hungarian Węgry - Hungary - Magyarország e a

Re: New team entry
Author: SHEV Date: 31-08-2004, 10:14	What about Hungary in rus and ukr? rusian ukrainian vengriya ugorschina In ukrainian "ugorschina" means "some territory near mountains". Don't ask me why, cause I didn't know?

Re: New team entry
Author: Ricardo Date: 31-08-2004, 10:22	And another one: Nederland - the Netherlands - Pays Bas - Paisos Bajos - die Niederlande, And how about in Russian/Ukrainian/.... Not only is it often translated, it often is made plural, while for me the Netherlands mean Netherlands+Flanders.

Re: New team entry
Author: JPV Date: 31-08-2004, 10:37	don't dare to call us part of the netherlands :p (i know, historically, we are the southern netherlands, but that includes Wallonia too). i guess belgium is belgium (or something like that) in all languages).

Author: arti
Date: 31-08-2004, 13:33

@ Forza-AZ
My league standings are based on Excel queries on UEFA site. And they have Feyenoord on 2nd. Most probably the difference is conected to the different systems each league uses to determine position when several clubs have got the same number of points. But that's another topic.

And anita: of course I have got it for CL Q2. I know it's a little bit useless now, but it's a good fun to watch the teams jumping on my excel file

So here it comes (it's based on this season format - with Kazakhstan teams absent, title holder already qualified so all necessary movements included - like tenth ranked nation's champion going directly to group stage):

CL Q2
seeded:
FC Dynamo Kyiv (Ukraina 2) 30,616
Maccabi Haifa FC (Izrael 1) 18,805
FK Partizan (Serbia i Czarnogóra 1) 18,104
Fenerbahçe SK (Turcja 2) 16,634
Grazer AK (Austria 1) 15,063
PFC CSKA Sofia (Bułgaria 1) 13,788
Ferencvárosi TC (Węgry 1) 11,729
Aberdeen FC (Szkocja 2) 10,240
RAA Louviéroise (Belgia 2) 10,157
FC Zenit St. Peterburg (Rosja 1) 7,994
Tromsř IL (Norwegia 2) 6,418
FC Thun (Szwajcaria 2) 6,146
FC National Bucuresti (Rumunia 1) 5,890
APOEL FC (Cypr 1) 5,694

unseeded
Silkeborg IF (Dania 1) 5,565
NK Inter Zaprešic (Chorwacja 1) 5,321
Malmö FF (Szwecja 1) 4,828
FK ZTS Dubnica (Słowacja 1) 3,849
FC Haka (Finlandia 1) 3,158
NK Gorica (Słowenia 1) 2,969
NK Zrinjski (Bośnia i Hercegowina 1) 2,364
FC Nistru Otaci (Mołdawia 1) 2,089
FHK Liepajas Metalurgs (Łotwa 1) 2,089
Birkirkara FC (Malta 1) 1,989
FC Dinamo Tbilisi (Gruzja 1) 1,814
FBK Kaunas (Litwa 1) 1,759
FK Rabotnicki (Macedonia 1) 1,484
ÍBV Vestmannćyjar (Islandia 1) 1,484

CL Q3
seeded:
Valencia CF (Hiszpania 4) 112,861
FC Barcelona (Hiszpania 3) 103,861
FC Internazionale (Włochy 4) 82,278
Juventus FC (Włochy 3) 73,278
Celtic FC (Szkocja 1) 58,240
Feyenoord (Holandia 2) 49,569
Club Brugge KV (Belgia 1) 41,157
Rosenborg BK (Norwegia 1) 34,418
Olympiacos CFP (Grecja 2) 34,009
FC Dynamo Kyiv (Ukraina 2) 30,616
Wisła Kraków (Polska 1) 30,517
Werder Bremen (Niemcy 3) 27,149
RC Lens (Francja 3) 26,071
FC Basel 1893 (Szwajcaria 1) 24,146
SL Benfica (Portugalia 3) 23,264
FC Shakhtar Donetsk (Ukraina 1) 19,616

unseeded:
Maccabi Haifa FC (Izrael 1) 18,805
FK Partizan (Serbia i Czarnogóra 1) 18,104
FK Teplice (Czechy 2) 18,058
Fenerbahçe SK (Turcja 2) 16,634
Bolton Wanderers FC (Anglia 3) 16,432
Tottenham Hotspur FC (Anglia 4) 16,432
Grazer AK (Austria 1) 15,063
PFC CSKA Sofia (Bułgaria 1) 13,788
Ferencvárosi TC (Węgry 1) 11,729
Aberdeen FC (Szkocja 2) 10,240
RAA Louviéroise (Belgia 2) 10,157
FC Zenit St. Peterburg (Rosja 1) 7,994
Tromsř IL (Norwegia 2) 6,418
FC Thun (Szwajcaria 2) 6,146
FC National Bucuresti (Rumunia 1) 5,890
APOEL FC (Cypr 1) 5,694

And pots for CL:
1
Valencia CF (Hiszpania 4) 112,861
FC Barcelona (Hiszpania 3) 103,861
AC Milan (Włochy 1) 93,278
FC Internazionale (Włochy 4) 82,278
Arsenal FC (Anglia 1) 78,432
Juventus FC (Włochy 3) 73,278
AS Roma (Włochy 2) 68,278
PSV Eindhoven (Holandia 1) 62,569

2
Panathinaikos FC (Grecja 1) 60,009
Celtic FC (Szkocja 1) 58,240
Bayer 04 Leverkusen (Niemcy 1) 53,149
Feyenoord (Holandia 2) 49,569
Chelsea FC (Anglia 2) 47,432
VfB Stuttgart (Niemcy 2) 44,149
AC Sparta Praha (Czechy 1) 42,058
Club Brugge KV (Belgia 1) 41,157

3
Rosenborg BK (Norwegia 1) 34,418
Olympiacos CFP (Grecja 2) 34,009
AJ Auxerre (Francja 2) 32,071
FC Dynamo Kyiv (Ukraina 2) 30,616
Wisła Kraków (Polska 1) 30,517
Real Zaragoza (Hiszpania 1) 27,861
Werder Bremen (Niemcy 3) 27,149
RC Lens (Francja 3) 26,071

4
FC Basel 1893 (Szwajcaria 1) 24,146
SL Benfica (Portugalia 3) 23,264
Club Atlético de Madrid (Hiszpania 2) 20,861
FC Shakhtar Donetsk (Ukraina 1) 19,616
FC Metz (Francja 1) 13,071
Vitória Setúbal (Portugalia 1) 12,264
CF Os Belenenses (Portugalia 2) 12,264
Trabzonspor (Turcja 1) 9,634

Though I didn't determine who will be the title holder and so will be the top-seed

Re: New team entry
Author: anita Date: 31-08-2004, 21:06	Hmmmm. I have never used those MS Querys. Maybe time to try to find out what it is. Seems useful.