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Just another 9th place battle
Author: Nefi Date: 26-08-2004, 12:54	After Rangers unsuccess countries got closer to each other and 9th place is posible for all 4 favourites again. Who has the greatest chances to enter CHL directly?

Author: anita
Date: 26-08-2004, 13:16

Rangers failure to reach CL have economical consequences. But they may as well pick up just as many and more points in UEFA-cup. Should be able to take (minimum) 3 points in round 1 and 5 in group stage (seeded in pot 2) and advancing to round 3 at least 2 points, giving 10 points. Compared to CL group stage gives 7 points there (excl. 3 bonus points), meaning 2 wins and 3 draws or 3 wins and 1 draw. Last season Rangers just got 3 points in CL.....

And in the battle for seeding in CLQR3 next season (very important), Rangers are in the middle of it with e.g Rosenborg, PAOK, Dinamo Kiev, Brügge.

Author: Pelotas
Date: 26-08-2004, 13:23

Belgium, Turkey and Czech Rep. also lost a team in the qualifying rounds. So it's quite even

Still in it: Celtic, Sparta Praha, Anderlecht and Fenerbahçe.

In the Uefa Cup: (s=seeded, u=unseeded)
Belgium: Club Brugge (s), Standard Ličge (u), SK Beveren (u, if getting past FC Vaduz, up 3-1 after first leg@home)
Turkey: Besiktas (s), Trabzonspor (u), Gençlerbirligi (u, if getting past NK Rijeka, up 1-0 after first leg@home)
Czech Rep.: Banik Ostrava (u), Sigma Olomouc (?, if they get past SV Pasching, 1-2 up after first leg@Pasching), Slavia Praha (s, if they get past Dinamo Tbilisi, up 3-1 after first leg@home)
Scotland: Glasgow Rangers(s), Haerts(u), Dunfermline Athletic (u, if they get past FH Hafnarfjardur, first leg was 2-2 in Iceland)

As of now, the standings are

9 Scotland 27.875
10 Belgium 26.375
11 Turkey 26.166
12 Czech Republic 25.950

Herein not included the bonus point for qualifying for Anderlecht and Sparta Praha. (or does this point go to all teams in the CL proper, als the ones directly qualified ?, if so then all 4 countries get the same) And in the CLQ3, Belgium also gets one victory and a draw, Czech Rep scores 2 victories, Turkey gets nothing and Scotland gets a draw.

That's Czech Rep + 5, Belgium + 4, Scotland + 1, Turkey + 0 (Not whole points, divided by 4 i think, so 1,25 for Czech Rep., 1 For Belgium, etc...)

Anyway, to get to a conclusion, let's hope Bert updates the site soon! :D ... and I think it's pretty open. I think the draw of later today and tomorrow may have a big influence. Also the UEFA one, because if some of the unseeded teams get through to the new group stage of the UEFA, they get 4 extra matches... should be "some" extra point somewhere

Could prove vital.

Author: anita
Date: 26-08-2004, 13:50

Rankings today: Hope it is understandable

1 Spania 63,217
2 England 49,795
3 Italia 49,328
4 Tyskland 39,846
5 Frankrike 39,612
6 Portugal 37,166
7 Hellas 30,332
8 Nederland 28,997
9 Skottland 28,000
10 Belgia 27,500
11 Tsjekkia 27,200
12 Tyrkia 26,166
13 Israel 20,124
14 Ukraina 19,750
15 Polen 19,500
16 Norge 19,200
17 Sveits 18,500
18 Řsterrike 17,875
19 Serbia 17,749
20 Russland 17,666
21 Bulgaria 16,790
22 Danmark 16,533
23 Kroatia 15,791

Author: jonjon
Date: 26-08-2004, 14:03

Very close again, maybe we will have better idea this afternoon. Maybe bias, but i think Celtic are the best chance to score well in the CL, and maybe Anderlecht too. Sorry if i offend, but think Fenerbahce may struggle in CL, however looking at their representatives Turkey look like having the strongest trio in the UC. Czech are uncertain to me, financially the league is far behind the other 3, so many departures to neighbouring leagues from year to year sadly, therefore difficult to rate their strength this year compared to last.

Also worth noting for next year that Netherlands is only 1 point ahead of Scotland, but will loose much larger co-efficient at the end of the season. Others will gain also, so next season it could maybe be 5/6 teams very close rather than 4.

Author: Ricardo
Date: 26-08-2004, 14:06

Pelotas,
Hearts is 100% seeded for UefaCup round 1,
Sigma Olomouc need 10(!) seeded losers above them before they will be seeded[ok there are 12, so theoretically it is possible, but keep dreaming>

And maybe you should include Holland and Greece in this list, I guess that if Greece & Holland are underperforming like last year, they can be cathed by one of these countries, if they do (very) well.
Let's first see who gets through and next await the draw, but it will be a battle, for sure.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: Pelotas Date: 26-08-2004, 15:36	Sigma Olomouc won't be a seed indeed... but Hearts will :p As it stands now Hearts and Heerenveen are the last seeds. Bochum and Allemania drop out...

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: blancjb15 Date: 26-08-2004, 20:27	Some good news for Belgium and Scotland: 66' Dinamo Tbilissi - Slavia Praha 2-0. Slavia virtually eliminated. Hope Georgians achieve to keep the score.


Author: Sanibel Date: 26-08-2004, 20:33	Pelotas, by the way Olomouc plays Otači not Pasching and won 2:1 away.......so the 1st round is almost sure. Slavia is in trouble but this is not the end.


Author: Sanibel Date: 26-08-2004, 20:34	Pelotas, by the way Olomouc plays Otači not Pasching and won 2:1 away.......so the 1st round is almost sure. Slavia is in trouble but this is not the end.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: blancjb15 Date: 26-08-2004, 20:51	Slavia now for sure eliminated. First surprise

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: JPV Date: 26-08-2004, 20:52	it is the end... FT Din. Tbilisi 2 - 0 Slavia Prague this is a MAJOR upset, i don't think this has happened before on more than a few occasions

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: anita Date: 26-08-2004, 20:57	And Slavia seeded in UC-round 1 in pot 1 give some stirrup. Rangers will now be in pot 1 and Bochum in as seeded.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: Sanibel Date: 26-08-2004, 20:57	OK, Slavia is eliminated...Truly said they are tragical this year. Sold too many players speaking about the own stadium for couple of years and the level is going down. Last year lost Sofia now Tbilisi...Its something very bad in this club, manager LEŠKA...

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: anita Date: 26-08-2004, 21:03	No offense to anyone, but you can't compare Levski Sofia with Dinamo Tbilisi. Look what the Polish teams did to the Georgians.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: Sanibel Date: 26-08-2004, 21:20	I don?t wanna compare, Tbilisi is worse. But Slavia is getting worse and worse......They shouldn?t finish 4th last year in league. BTW Liberec is in much better for good healthy team. but Schalke was difficult to beat...

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 26-08-2004, 21:46	Slavia out means 5 teams move up 1 pot in UEFA-cup round 2: Rangers to Pot A Besiktas to Pot B Sochaux to Pot C Utrecht to Pot D Bochum seeded in round 1

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: anita Date: 26-08-2004, 21:56	Genclerbirligi down 0-2 to Rijeka so far mean that Aachen is seeded just now. Bad news for Turkey.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: Forza-AZ Date: 26-08-2004, 22:08	Servette still on 0-0 at HT (first match 1-3), and Brondby on 1-1 at HT (fm 0-0). So Amica looks te be seeded, but they are 1-0 behind (fm 0-1), so it looks hopeful for Maritimo Funchal at the moment.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: aliihsan Date: 26-08-2004, 22:14	Gençlerbirligi 1-2 good news for turkey just five minutes remained. Take some teams down

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: aliihsan Date: 26-08-2004, 22:18	And Rijeka-Gençlerbirliđi 1-2. Gençler lost(no points) but they are certainly seeded and I can see many weak unseeded teams.

Author: Pelotas
Date: 27-08-2004, 02:51

UC 2nd QR Resultst overview:

Scotland: Dunfermline Athletic lose 1-2 at home against FH Hafnarfjardur of Iceland. They lose on aggregate too, 3-4 in favor of the Icelanders. This leaves Glasgow Rangers and Hearts, both seeded still in it.

Belgium: KSK Beveren win 1-2 away to FC Vaduz of Liechtenstein. They win 5-2 on Aggregate and go through. Belgium now has three teams in the UCR1: Club Brugge seeded and Standard Luik and KSK Beveren unseeded.

Turkey: Gençlerbirligi lost 1-2 away to NK Rijeka of Croatia. But since they won 1-0 at home they progress on away goals! Gençlerbirligi now joins Besiktas as seeded Turkish team in the UCR. Trabzonspor is the other Turkish team, but unseeded.

Czech Republic: Slavia Prague produced a big upset by losing 0-2 away to Dinamo Tbilisi of Georgia. Since the first leg ended in a 3-1 to the Czechs, the Georgians move on on away goals! Luckily, Sigma Olomouc did win, 4-0 against Nistru Otachi from Moldavia. On aggregate they win 6-1. Baník Ostrava is the other team in the UCR1, bot teams are unseeded.

Conclusion, Belgium was lucky today and made the best moves. Czech Republic did get a blow today but their race for 9th place is no entirely over I think. Sparta Prague did get quite a good draw in the CL. Against Olympique Lyon and Fenerbahçe I can see them getting quite a lot of points. Maybe second rounds is in it... Manchester United even isn't unreachable. Scotland and Belgium got a very tough draw in the CL. (Anderlecht has Valencia, Werder Bremen and Inter Milan whereas Celtic meets Barcelona, AC Milan and Shakhtar Donetsk! Two groups of death I think...) On the other hand, Belgium and Scotland have the advantage in the UC. So those three are quite even. And yes, even Turkey is on same terms I think, they just may have the best papers in terms of number of teams, but I don't see Fenerbahçe geting many points in the CL... IF they should do anyway, and especially against Sparta Prague. They could just come out on top.

As for now... it's wide open I think

We'll see after the draw for the UCR1 Friday afternoon

Author: ianmorrison
Date: 27-08-2004, 11:34

I think you could even call this an 8th place battle with Holland having 6 teams in Europe. The crucial factor now will be how many teams in Uefa cup reach group stage from each country. Scotland is in good position with 2 seeded teams. Don't think Czech Rep has any chance of 9th as they won't pick up enough points in Uefa Cup with unseeded teams. However, as i said, it all depends on how many teams from each country in group stage. Look forward to draw!

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: ianmorrison Date: 27-08-2004, 11:44	Even Greece in 8th aren't uncatchable with 6 teams or is that being optimistic!

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: Ricardo Date: 27-08-2004, 12:13	Sure, bad CL for Olympiakos, Panathinaikos drew top of pot 3 and pot 4. 2 unseeded teams in UC. Yes I think Greece won't have a happy year (again). Ofcourse A Lucky UC draw can turnaround things: AEK can draw Gorica Panionis can draw Heerenveen PAOK can draw Elfsbjorg Egaleo can draw Amica Wronki But it can also be a lot worse. reece won't fall below 10th position, but the 7th place can be lost.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: Emperor Date: 27-08-2004, 12:27	Ricardo I hope that Amica will draw Egaleo . It can be also Ventspils

Author: Kronsky
Date: 27-08-2004, 13:05

and the battle for 15th place then...

Israel is back in town to fight for their rights

and Norway survived massive attac, shooting in last second and showing som of the old viking spirit. Ukraina is going strong, Bulgaria is still in the fight and...

Poland is still on the track,
before the meteor attac...

So, it between Israel, Ukraina, Norway, Bulgaria and Poland. Three of them will be happy and 2 unhappy so the conclusions are that the majority will be happy

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: kurt Date: 27-08-2004, 14:31	bad draw for scotland, scotland is out for 9-place good draw for belgium, belgium is a favourite for 9 place, 10 is also good

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: Pelotas Date: 27-08-2004, 14:47	I don't know, I can see Standard Ličge and Beveren lose against Bochum and Levski Sofia... :s

Author: jonjon
Date: 27-08-2004, 14:58

With 1st round draw:

Czech - very hard for both, cant see either qualifying

Belgium- Beveren with best draw they could have wished for, thuogh could be tricky. Hard on Bruge and Liege drawing a French and German as unseeded teams, but Bruge should make it.

Turkey- Trabzonspur v Bilbao, very difficult, but other two will be big favourites

Scotland (v Portugal) - Rangers, trickiest opponent in Maritimo, though depsite poor form would expect to qualify, Hearts draw most difficult unseeded in group Braga, will be tight, could go either way.

Therefore in group stages should be 2 for Turkey, 1 Belgium, 1 Scotland. Plus 50% chance for 1 more from Scotland and Belgium. Sorry Czech would love you to prove me wrong, but you have by far the toughest draw.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: EarlofBug Date: 27-08-2004, 15:09	Why don't you call it the fight for the 7th place? The gap isn't so big, and Holland and Greece can be passed.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: Zuberbuler Date: 27-08-2004, 15:11	jonjonjon,i think it`s a good draw for Bochum and Levski.In my opinion Bochum are better than Standard Ličge and Levski will have no problems with Beveren

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: blancjb15 Date: 27-08-2004, 15:22	Bochum has 2 points in 2 matches in Bundesliga. So not so strong as it was last year. Good draw for Standard. At least better than Sevilla, Auxerre and Red Star (always difficult to play against in Serbia).

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: ianmorrison Date: 27-08-2004, 15:26	Kurt, I wouldn't say Scotland out of 9th pos this early. If Hearts and Rangers qualify Scotland will be favourites for 9th pos. The other contenders don't look any more likely to pick up alot of points. Rangers will be favourites and it will be close for Hearts.

Author: anita
Date: 27-08-2004, 15:29

The standings just now:

7  Greece     30.332   6/6
8   Holland     28.997   6/6
9   Scotland     28.000   3/4
10  Belgium     27.750   4/4
11  Czechs     27.450   3/4
12  Turkey     26.166   4/4

Scotland and Czechs already one team down. I think Greece and Holland will hold on to their places, but depends (mostly)on who qualify for UC group stage.

Of these nations teams, following should qualify:
AEK Athen for Greece vs Gorica
Feyenoord (Odd), Utrecht(Djurgaarden) for Holland
Don't trust the scots teams against prtugueses
Club Brügge(Chateuroux) for Belgium
Both Czech teams may disappear (M'boro and Zaragoza)
Besiktas(Bodo) for Turkey

Intersting match here is Genclerbirligi-Aigaleo. Should be Gencer, but...

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: ianmorrison Date: 27-08-2004, 15:33	Not even Rangers Anita! We'll just have to wait and see. I think you might just want Rangers to go out to help Rosenborg for CL seeding next year! Thats fair enough obviously!

Author: Giantkiller
Date: 27-08-2004, 15:34

I'm not sure Bochum is a good draw for Standard which is a very curious team. Good players but awful mentality since years. And a problem of who is in charge of this club ? In Belgium, nobody understand the organisation and the direction of the club. Dreyfuss is generally in Marseille, D'Onofrio the manager has some link with Miami and, I'm afraid, with the mob... Ličge is a little Marseille : a great stadium,a wonderful public but a team which almost totally change each year. The championship started 3 weeks ago and they are now in discussion with Hamburg for the transfert of Portuguese Moreira. In the same time they just transfer Sergio Conceicao ! Where they found the money ??? Well! The team is totally unstable.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: anita Date: 27-08-2004, 15:35	So my prediction is that Scotland, Czech Republic and Belgium will fight for 9th place, but you need a crystal bowl to predict their positions at the end of season. And remember that 10th place normally give a free spot in CL group stage.Turkey will suffer because of six teams.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: EarlofBug Date: 27-08-2004, 15:46	Hi Anita, Cristal Ball, not bowl. That's what we are playing with (: And I think that Turkey is in a good shape, not less than Belgium and Czech. Scotland should threaten Holland, but it got though draws. So Scotland is back with the other 3 (:

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: anita Date: 27-08-2004, 15:47	ianmorrison, I mentioned the teams that have obvious weaker opponents. Rangers are favorites against the guys from Madeira, but not an obvious group spot for Rangers. And yes, of course I hope Rangers will be eliminated when it comes to coefficient battle, but that is another topic

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: anita Date: 27-08-2004, 15:53	Sorry, Turkey have just four teams this year, and all three may go to group stage. So count Turkey in as well.

Re: Just another 9th place battle
Author: kurt Date: 27-08-2004, 16:17	to Pelotas beveren and standard liege have difficult draw, but the other possible opponents, are much stronger then bochum and lefski sofia beveren is very happy with lefski sofia bochum is ??????