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Author: Michele
Date: 10-03-2004, 20:07
| I know that it doesn't matter very much, but I don't think that England will have a very good year in Europe next season. Middlesbrough will be one of their UEFA-cup contestants. They have no experience of playing in the European cups and even though they have a lot of experienced players, I predict an early exit for Boro.
Another team in the UEFA-cup will be Sunderland, Millwall or Tranmere. One of them will play in the FA-cup final against Arsenal or Manchester United and they are both almost certain of qualifying for the Champions League. So, this will be a team from divisions 1 or 2; another early exit, I guess. And England usually have one or two underachieving teams, leaving a great responsibility on Arsenal, Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Newcastle if England are to get an acceptable result next year.
There is no place for an early slip-up like Manchester United did yesterday.
Lucky for them that there is no way they can fall below 3rd place in the rankings.
Does anyone agree with me? I'm especially interested in what you English guys say.
Michele |
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Author: ralfinho
Date: 11-03-2004, 00:11
| But look at this year's ranking, Michele:
England had Blackburn and Southampton bringing in only 1 point each. However, England is at rank 3 at the moment and has good chances to finish at 2 or 3.
So, why not next season? |
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Author: tomschman
Date: 11-03-2004, 20:24
| I don't see much difference between this year and next year. I agree that there may be two weaker teams, but they could still win a round because there compition will probably be from a smaller County. Other than those 2 teams, there will be Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United and probably Newcastle and Liverpool. Seems fairly strong to me. |
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Author: Arend
Date: 11-03-2004, 21:39
| Millwall in Europe.... It would be good if they at least have to go to Azerbeidzjan..... |
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Author: Michele
Date: 12-03-2004, 00:28
| The weaker English sides will probably be seeded in the second qualifying round of the UEFA Cup because of their country coefficient and they will probably win this round as well. But I think that as soon as the opposition is real tough, they will bow out. We have seen this before with Union Berlin of Germany and Nimes of France.
I'm not necessarily saying that it will be a bad year for England, I'm just thinking that the "big" teams will have to do well if England are to gain a respectable coefficient. They cannot afford early exits as Man United and Liverpool? this year.
Hope I've claryfied my points a bit.
Michele |
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Author: badgerboy
Date: 12-03-2004, 00:56
| Personally I disagree with the way we in the UK (and other nations for that matter) choose their European participants. Fair enough that the FA Cup WINNERS should get a European place but not the losing finalists. The sixth place side in the premiership are far more deserving. Not even sure about the league cup winners either. I'd relegate them to the UEFA Intertoto cup - which no English sides seem to fancy playing in these days.
One point that I don't think was covered by the other responses. There will be a greater opportunity for clubs to pick up points in next seasons UEFA Cup - assuming they get past the weak opposition in Round 1 (Blackburn and Southampton didn't this year) given that they will be guaranteed 4 more matches. On which note - does everyone realise that it will take more matches to win next seasons UEFA Cupthan next seasons Champions League - which has got to be ridiculous! |
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Author: Arend
Date: 12-03-2004, 09:09
| I think every team in the Premiership is capable of winning the UEFA Cup.
Also - the top teams are only intrested in playing CL. And all the other teams are intrested in staying in the premiership a lot more than in preforming well in the UEFA Cup.
The change that a team in fact winns the cup is very small and when a team tries really hard that will be bad for the results in the domestic league.
First of all there should be a new European cup for cupwinners. In that competition all the cupwinners AND champions that did not make it to the CL first round should get a spot.
Second: the number of teams country that can play in the UEFA Cup should be a lot lower.
Right now the competition is to long and as a result not very intresting untill the QF or maybe evaen SF.
So I do not think that it realy matters what team from the premiership plays in the UEFA Cup. The fact that they are not really motivated when they are playing in the UEFA Cup is the real problem.
Otherwise there is no explenation for the fact that Premiership teams keep on losing in the UEFA Cup, versus teams that are out in the next round most of the time.
So we need a third cup competition, no group stage and also we need LESS clubs in the UEFA Cup and the possible new cup competition.
I would give the countries number 1 - 20 3 spots in the new cup for cupwinners and champions and UEFA Cup TOGETHER, on top of the teams that play CL. So 3 spots in two competitions. All the other countries get two spots.
Than you will have short and intresting cup competitions. |
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Author: kerrbhoy
Date: 12-03-2004, 09:44
| English clubs take the UEFA Cup very seriously. More seriously than Italian clubs thats for sure.
I don't think Southampton, Blackburn, Man City are capable of winning the UEFA Cup. Really the standard of these clubs is not great. Getting into Europe is a HUGE thing for these teams. It's taken very seriously. But still they will normally go out after the 1st or 2nd round. They wouldn't get away with not trying or playing 2nd teams in important UEFA Cup matches *although they might do it in games they expect to win easily. Even for Newcastle & Liverpool this year, it's important to win the UEFA Cup because the fans are angry at disappointing seasons...
The truth is outside of the Top 5 teams in England, the standard is pretty average.
A third cup won't work, already a lot of people look at the UEFA Cup as being far inferior to the CL. The 3rd cup would be insignificant. Why not give more clubs entry to the UEFA Cup? |
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Author: Arend
Date: 12-03-2004, 10:02
| Well.... Maybe only early in the season teams like Chelsea do not take the cup serious...
I think an axtra cup means more change of winning a cup. There are only 3 prices in Europe, that is not a lot.
The problem with the UEFA Cup is that there are to much matches. That's why I think there should be less teams involved.
So maybe the lower ranked English teams are not able of adapting to the different styles clubs on the main continent use.
I was saying that every team in the Premiership can winn the UEFA Cup, because of the fact that some minor Spanish club made it to the finals couple of years back, Alaves, they lost 5-4 to Liverpool.
If a Spanish "small" club can do it, than also a small English club should be able to get close to winning the UEFA cup.
England will be in the top 3 anyway. They have more or less succesfull teams every year, while France and Germany sometimes have years in which not one of the teams is succesfull at all. |
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Author: Racing
Date: 12-03-2004, 11:30
| the problem is that a spanish village team like alaves is much better than an overated, overpayed, overhyped english premiership side like southampton. So just because Alaves (and Rayo that season) can make it to late rounds in UEFA cup, doesnt mean English sides can. Spanish football is proven much superior to english football year after year after year. Maybe the gap is closing, but im sorry england is still miles behind |
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Author: Arend
Date: 12-03-2004, 15:45
| I think the players in the premiership are just as talented BEFORE they start playing games.
Maybe the players learn the wrong things in the premiership. The speed of the game is very high. Teams harldy ever do not try to get the speed out of the game. Also when a player makes a dive the crowd does not accept it.
So maybe the "problem" is not the players, but the crowd. They care about sensation just as much as they care about results.
Only 3 or 4 English teams can addapt to the way the game is played in other parts of Europe.
I do not think there is real problem for English clubs. Spanish clubs are on top of the ranking, that's just a number. Spanish clubs are also on top when it comes to spending to much money, sooner or later that WILL be a problem. |
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Author: Racing
Date: 12-03-2004, 17:11
| i think your wrong. the players individually are not as talented. Spanish segunda B and tercera division has much better talented players than English premiership. Maybe the Spanish are more lazy, the english run and run, which can make up the obvious difference in technical ability. Its brains and skill against brawn and energy.
English players score a goal and they and thier fans think they are a god. No, they have scored a goal. My grandma can score a goal. Thats the problem that english have. Much emotion and passion but very little intellegence and ability. |
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Author: james
Date: 12-03-2004, 17:47
| wouldnt it make uefa cup more interesting if the winners qualified for the following years cl.i know most winners of uc do qualify by right to next cl, but if this was a rule im sure some teams would try harder. |
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Author: Lyonnais
Date: 12-03-2004, 18:04
| I also agree that outside the English Top 3 (maybe Top 5 if you want to include Liverpool or Newcastle) that is very competitive, the other teams of the Premier League are rather average and certainly not able to be able to win the UEFA Cup (otherwise I guess that they would have won much more UEFA Cups in the last 10 years).
I also agree that the Liga is currently by far the best League in Europe (just see UEFA coefficients to be convinced).
And I don't think that there is a need to create an additional European Cup as the UEFA Cup itself struggles to have some large interest in the main Leagues. |
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Author: Arend
Date: 13-03-2004, 01:06
| Well than you can give the winners of EC2 and EC3 direct acess to the 3rd round of the Q CL.
If there are more than 2 teams from one country in the 3rd Q round of CL, than they can play versus eachother. Like that there will be no more than 4 teams from the same country in the first round CL.
More change of winning a cup and also acess to the CL will make the teams trie harder. |
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Author: badgerboy
Date: 13-03-2004, 01:24
| I definitely don't see the need for reintroducing the Cup Winners Cup or some other third European competition.
I do agree with James though that the UEFA Cup Winners should qualify for the following seasons Champions League (3rd qualifying round). I also think that the losing finalists should get a spot - maybe in the second qualifying round. Can't understand why UEFA haven't done this - at least for the winners -already. At the moment you are faced with the situation that finishing 4th in the Premiership (or La Liga etc.) is far more important than winning the UEFA Cup.
I also don't think it should matter if more than 4 teams from one country enter the CHampions League. This has turned into a pretty long thread- think I'll start again with a new title! |
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